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Aircoach Route Changes and General Discussion.

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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    You would wonder if someone else would then step in to fill the void, Dublin Express perhaps.

    Really the management of Aircoach's portfolio of routes over the last couple of years or so has been really poor with the hyper focus on serving what isn't a huge market from Derry and the obvious commercial naivety of the Galway route.

    Last year's Dublin network configuration doesn't look any better the long it has been place. Realistically what people wanted from the 702/703 routes really was most of all a higher frequency and a faster journey if possible, they didn't want to see the routes merge into these long unwieldy routes with varying gaps between each service.

    If they really do scrap the Greystones leg as that is now no longer commercially viable, the poor management of their network, lack of commercial nous and the poor reliability of their services in 2024 will no doubt have played a substantial part in that and they have nobody to blame but themselves.

    A reminder that Aircoach operated both the 702 and 703 every hour pre-covid commercially successfully for a decade so there is certainly demand for a good service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Aircoach pulling out of the Greystones route could be a positive if another operator steps in and provides a better service. Opportunity for Dublin Express perhaps?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    First have bought Matthews



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,601 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    the numbers using AC from Greystones & Bray aren't huge. If AC can't make the numbers add up when they're also picking people up all along the rest of the route to the airport I can't see another operator being viable just serving north Wicklow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭p_haugh




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    Apparently Aircoach are to discontinue the Greystones route from end February, also just been announced they have bought out Matthews Coaches.

    Post edited by devnull on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Aircoach have made a mess of the Greystones. Journey times of 3 hours on some of the trips. The route was doing well pre covid before they changed the routing and there was an hourly service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,601 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    it was always slow though, maybe not as slow as it became after the rerouting. Any route through Dublin picking up passengers along the way is going to be really slow, and there isn't the numbers for a Greystones-Bray-M50-Airport express service.

    I'm in Greystones, I've only ever used it a couple of times when I've been travelling on my own, but the last few times I've got the Dart into town and then DB or Dublin Express as it's both quicker and cheaper. If you're travelling as a family it's generally not much more expensive, and much more convenient, to park at/near the airport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,759 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Covid led to a radical reduction in frequency but the routing problem started a few years earlier.

    IIRC it started after the financial crash of 2008 when they 'merged' the Greystones service with the 'D4 Hotels' route so the 702 now had to go in the Merrion Road instead of going from the Rock Road to the East Link and straight to the tunnel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 423 ✭✭Rock Steady Edy


    As in the 702 route? Perhaps they are shortening it, because I saw an Aircoach along Monkstown Road earlier with a "Driver Under Instruction" on the destination board, which they'd hardly do if the route was to stop later this month.

    Post edited by devnull on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    It's been reported in the article below that First, the owners of Aircoach, have secured ownership of Matthews Coach Hire's freehold depot which is located between Dublin & Belfast. That's a very interesting move from Aircoach.

    I would assume that Aircoach would use this depot for their route between Dublin & Belfast.

    Post edited by devnull on


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Interesting, sounds like they are looking to consolidate on the M1 corridor. Makes a lot more sense than the Galway route anyway. Could be increased competition for BE’s commuter services.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    From what I have heard from two excellent sources, the revised routing post the July network has led to a considerable decline in passengers on the outer section of the route to the point where it is no longer commercially viable. Having tapped into some local knowledge in the Wicklow area, many of the previous customers who would take the Aircoach from those areas and others on the outer part of the 702 route, have now switched to a combination of DART and Dublin Express or DART and Dublin Bus, because not only it quicker, it is also vastly cheaper thanks to the fare reductions over recent years on the TFI Dublin City Network.

    The 701 route to Merrion Square is also performing really poorly and whilst I have not heard anything certain about it's fate, it's highly likely that it will not be around come Easter. It was a really curious decision to bring that route back as it had been axed the best part of a decade earlier for not being able to work on a stand alone basis which is why it was inserted into the 702 and then afterwards the 703 route as they wanted to keep serving this area. The issue with dropping the 701 is that will mean that the key Dublin City to Dublin Airport corridor will be down to one bus every 30 minutes, prior to the July network changes, the 700 was every 15 minutes but now is every 30 minutes. Dublin Express dwarf them in frequency already on that key corridor.

    For all intents and purposes, the network review of last July, which saw changes to all of the Dublin to Airport routes has been a commercial disaster. The extending of the 700 to Cherrywood has not worked, the 701 has flopped, the 702 route changes have killed the demand from the outer ends of the route that was commercially viable for over a decade and the merging of the 703 route into the 702 has clearly not worked either. Much of the changes that are speculated to happen over the next little while will likely reverse may of the July changes whilst also having some service cuts on top.

    However the biggest own goal of the network review is that Aircoach management and it's drivers were subject to disagreements on the rosters for this new network and this and a lack of driving staff led to significant service cancellations for many weeks. This was very damaging to Aircoach's well deserved reputation for providing reliable services. Whilst the rosters issue was resolved and a new pay deal was agreed on to help retain drivers, they took a couple of months of this pain and the reputational hit not for something that would bring them long term benefit, but for a network that performed so poorly that it would need to be seriously modified several months later. If the changes that have been talked about on other forums are correct, they may even be looking to make driving staff redundant which is extraordinary if you think what has happened since July.

    There are still however negotiations going on with the NTA in relation to the service revisions that are likely to come, so it is possible that things are still moving at this moment in time and the above may be subject to change as there is a lot of local pressure being applied by local TDs.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Interesting development, but considering the poor way that the Aircoach network has been managed and how the Airporter integration was managed into the network, it's hard to be overly optimistic about this.

    However on the flip side, the acquisition of a known and respected coach operator with many years in the industry in Ireland could bring to the table management staff with a wealth of experience both commercially and operationally and if it's one thing that Aircoach need it really is that. Some also might argue if they had spent a little more money on getting people with the appropriate experience and commercial acumen at the top of the company and a little less on acquisitions, they might be better off as a company as they may have avoided the commercial lunacy of the Galway route for instance and some of the other things which have happened.

    It will be interesting to see how long the existing management stick around, because it is not uncommon after takeovers that previous owners and senior leadership move on after a short while when they need to report to someone else from the acquiring company, but if this is handled right then these people as I said could be exactly what Aircoach needs and be able to play a big part in turning things around. One things for sure, the quotes today suggest Kim Swann isn't going anywhere anytime soon, despite the fact her time at the helm so far seems to have anything but smooth sailing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    I would imagine the Matthews family are laughing all the way to the bank similar to O'Sullivan when he first sold Aircoach and fair play to them they've no doubt worked hard and built up a sucessful business organically with good reputation and are now reaping the rewards with what I'd imagine is a fairly lucrative sale.

    Let's hope it's a success Matthews have a good reputation hopefully First will keep this up and avoid the same mistakes they've been making with Aircoach over the last couple of years. One thing for sure is they should definitely keep the Matthews name it's a very different demographic to Aircoach. The commuter market is very different to the intercity/Airport market. It would also be extremely silly using the Aircoach name for services that don't serve any Airports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Can anyone here give us a rough percentage into how much Aircoach have lost in passenger demand since they revamped their Dublin & Wicklow routes from July of last year? How much of a drop off in passengers would need to be seen for the 702 to not make it commercially viable?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 423 ✭✭Rock Steady Edy


    For an up to 3 hour trip on the 702, between the driver, fuel, East link toll and other overheads they probably need to bring in €100 in fares to break even. There are lots of trips that probably run close to empty and few that run even half full to make up for it.

    I'm not sure about the reason for the drop off in demand over the years. The €2 90 minute fare can't have helped, The recently launched 24 hour E1 might have been the final nail in the coffin.

    I'd say they've seen a pick up in passengers from Dalkey since the reintroduction of the hourly service and a reduction in Greystones passengers since the 702 was re-routed and time-extended.

    Anecdotally, I took a couple of early morning 702s to the airport in the last quarter of 2024 - there were about 12 passengers on board. 12 on an early morning coach does not seem sustainable to me.

    Post edited by Rock Steady Edy on


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    It is a serious drop off. Passengers on the inner part of the route have picked up but the outer part have declined sharply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,369 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Pre covid the 0355 and 0455 Killiney Airport service on Friday/Saturdays regularly left people behind

    The slow return to hourly service lost trust and the current timetable is unreliable and commits the ultimate sin of leaving early by up to 10 minutes at intermediate points



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    In Q4 of last year the decline was in full swing following a rocky summer of considerable service cancellations, some at extremely short notice and the lengthening of Journey times in July. The true damage to demand and passenger confidence was done in the Summer months and just after.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Aircoach have now confirmed the previously rumoured changes to routes with effect from Sunday 2nd March.

    The company has blamed increasing traffic congestion and the service became less attractive, than alternatives such as DART or train services to the City Centre with onward travel to the airport.

    Aircoach today announced a number of changes to their Dublin and Wicklow services, following a comprehensive review of the company’s route performance. The changes will take effect from 00:01am on Sunday, March 2nd.

    The review analysed customer demand and service levels across Aircoach’s Dublin routes. These changes are being made to better align service offering to customer demand in a way that best fulfils Aircoach’s mission of providing quick, reliable, and frequent services for customers travelling to and from Dublin Airport.

    Route 700 will now operate between Dublin Airport and Leopardstown, and will no longer serve Galloping Green, Foxrock, Cabinteely, Cornelscourt or Cherrywood.

    Route 701 will become the 700X, providing a shuttle service between Dublin Airport and the City Centre, with the Ballsbridge and St Vincent’s Hospital stops now being served by Route 702.

    Route 702 will now operate between Dublin Airport and Dalkey, serving the 3 Arena, Ballsbridge, St Vincent’s Hospital, Booterstown, Monkstown, Dún Laoghaire and Dalkey via the Port Tunnel, and will no longer serve Loughlinstown, Shankill, Bray or Greystones.

    These changes are being made to maintain and enhance Aircoach’s services where the greatest demand is, and to improve the punctuality and reliability of services.

    Last year we announced a significant expansion to our services, going from 152 services a day to 217. Unfortunately, the anticipated passenger growth to match these expanded services has not materialised.

    The Bray and Greystones section of our 702 route has been experiencing low and declining passenger numbers in recent years, and is currently not viable. Average passenger numbers for our discontinued stops are now in the low single digits. Journey times had increased due to traffic congestion, and our service became less attractive, than alternatives such as DART or train services to the City Centre with onward travel to the airport.

    While we’re disappointed with today’s announcement, we’re confident that the changes being made will ensure the future sustainability and viability of our services across our full network of routes.

    Anyone with an existing booking to travel to/from one of the discontinued stops on March 2nd or thereafter will receive a full refund.

    Despite the above, Aircoach as ever is badly organised, as whilst the timetables will be changing from a fortnights time, the company has stated that the new timetables are not yet available and at the time of posting it's still possible to book seats for the services that won't exist in less than a fortnights time.

    Also of course whilst it's very easy for the company to blame traffic congestion and the service becoming less attractive, there's absolutely zero ownership of the destruction they have caused to demand for their own services by the poor reliability of them for peak travel season last summer or the ill fated network decisions that were made last July which created long unwieldy routes which were a significant factor in journey time extensions and making the service less attractive.

    This is a very sad day for those people in Bray and Greystones, whom have seen a previously successful route severely commercially mismanaged by the company and now will be left without a service for some period at least. It would not surprise me at all if National Express tried to start up on the route and then they would really show Aircoach up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    What was a great service was ruined in recent years by poor mismanagement.

    As said above, easy to blame traffic and other transport options but ultimately aircoach initially reduced the service and when eventually brought back to a 24hr service, made the route highly disliked and simply not attractive to customers.

    Let's see what comes of it if another operator sees it as commercially viable. The 24hr E1 will help at night from Bray connecting to airport services in the city centre.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I wonder would a Greystones - Bray - Shankill - Up the M50 to the Airport work instead?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 423 ✭✭Rock Steady Edy


    I can't see anyone picking up the Greystones route with a 24 hour E1. Perhaps Wexford bus could add a stop or 2 if there was enough demand.

    How busy was the Greystones route anyway even when it was more direct and hourly pre-covid?

    I wonder if the 702 (nee 703) will revert back to its Killiney Castle terminus in due course?

    Post edited by Rock Steady Edy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    It was always very well used before covid. Frequently full unless booked at peak times



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,601 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I rarely saw a busy Aircoach going through Greystones, usually no more than a handful of people on board. Can't see a direct service via the M50 having enough customers to be viable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,885 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    This is really disappointing news from Aircoach. Despite the E1 from Dublin Bus having a 24hr service from Ballywaltrim; it's not really that frequent during the night time. It's offers a vastly more frequent service in the day time hours.

    If someone was leaving their home from Greystones in the overnight hours to try & catch a flight from Dublin Airport without owning a car; the only option to get out of that part of Wicklow at that time of night is to get a taxi from their house either to Ballywatrim to get the E1 to the Airport or to stay on the taxi all the way out to the Airport.

    The taxi service has been going through shortage of drivers since Covid which doesn't make it an attractive alternative to get there. The Dart doesn't operate during the overnight hours in Greystones either to add an even bigger gap to the lack of public transport provision in the area. These gaps in services could cause a considerable challenge for those living in Greystones who can't get any other form of transport like a bus route that operates a night time service to get them out to the Airport.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Of course because the recent route changes over last few years and the poor reliability of services over last few years killed the demand slowly but surely. What happened post July was the final nails in the coffin.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    This morning further details have come into the public domain including a letter which has been sent to local representatives about the changes, not from Aircoach themselves, but from a senior consultant in a PR firm.

    It's times like these where senior management should be stepping forward and being front and centre rather than hiding behind a PR firm. It was July's changes that led to these large unwieldy routes and not enough drivers to service the routes which created a number of cancellations in last year as documented in the press.

    It also is reported in the Greystones Guide, that the company did not engage with local stakeholders.

    From March 2nd, services are to be axed from Loughlinstown, Shankill, Bray or Greystones.Public representatives were informed by email from Hanover Communications.

    Cllr Stokes stated: “Aircoach cited declining passenger numbers for this decision. The reality is that numbers are down because the service goes halfway round the world, or worse it fails to turn up on occasion. What passengers want is efficient and reliable services. Aircoach have not listened to common sense.”

    Cllr Stephen Stokes wrote to Kim Swan, Managing Director of Aircoach to outline a number of issues on January 24th, 2025. At the time, he also urged consultation with local representatives before any changes to the 702 route (Greystones to Dublin Airport). Following this Cllr Stokes successfully moved a motion at the January 2025 meeting of the Greystones Municipal District which outlined: “Greystones Municipal District thanks Aircoach for their continued service. The Greystones Municipal District would request to be consulted ahead of any decision to change the 702 route.”

    Cllr Stephen Stokes is disappointed that Aircoach did not consult local representatives that they were planning to axe the 702 route, before announcing the decision. He stated: “The discontinuation of the 702 route is a significant setback for our community. This service has been an essential link for residents, facilitating direct travel to Dublin Airport. Its removal not only disrupts personal and professional travel plans but also undermines our collective efforts to promote sustainable transportation options. It’s a pity that Aircoach didn’t have the decency to write to local representative directly.

    “Instead they hired a PR firm to handle their image. The image here is clear, Aircoach mismanaged previous changes, and now they have taken the easy option. It’s a shame that the current management has taken this decision. Aircoach has served North Wicklow for many years, which we are grateful for.”

    Cllr Stephen Stokes also urges Aircoach to reconsider its decision, taking into account the adverse effects on the community and the environment.  “While commercial considerations are understandable, they should not overshadow the public good. I implore Aircoach to engage with local stakeholders to explore viable solutions that maintain this critical connection."

    Post edited by devnull on


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I see this morning there is an article from Irish Times' Cantillon column calling out poor decision making and the lack of commercial acumen by Aircoach management last summer when it changed the network around.

    Those statements address a number of key challenges – some of which should have been clear to Kim Swan and her team last summer.

    First, at a time when it had already accepted publicly that it was struggling to recruit enough drivers to deliver on existing routes, it seemed a bit previous to be expanding those services.

    Second, Aircoach ignored the first rule of marketing: if you are going to change your offering, get the message out there loud and clear. All too often, regular users were unaware of the changes. Some still are.

    Finally, any glance at proposed schedules that indicated it would take over two hours at best to get from Greystones to the airport – and three hours in rush-hour periods – should have raised questions on viability. The same issue arose on the extension of another route to Cherrywood.

    Rising ticket prices alongside those journey times also meant that, for a key suburban market weighing cost and time, it made more economic sense to travel by taxi, especially for families, or get a Luas or Dart to the city centre and take a bus from there.



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