Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

Mazraoui, De Ligt. They're the rejects of Bayern, why did we think buying them was going to drive the club on?

Not that they've been any worse than what we have, but they've hardly massively improved things either. It's absolutely shocking that Bayern consider them less useful than Eric Dyer who at 31 is four years older than Mazraoui and 6 years older than De Ligt. Dier isn't going to suddenly become world class, nor is he anywhere near it, yet was considered by Bayern to be a better bet to keep hold of.

I don't think they're bad players, but they're definitely not top players. I mean, De Ligt couldn't hack it at Juventus or Bayern, why did we think he'd be good enough for United? Mazraoui was cheap so it was probably worth it, but if he was any way useful Bayern would have kept him.

We shouldn't be targeting players that are considered not good enough to be a back up player at a top club. Mazroui made 38 appearances in two seasons for Bayern before he was shown the door. De Ligt did slightly better at Bayern but was still shown the down after two seasons, moved on after three with Juventus.

Not to be picking on the lads, but the point is, why are the club aiming for players other top clubs see as simply not good enough? Where's our vision? Where's our ruthlessness? Decent players, but that's it, decent. What type of effort was the club at with their transfers?

The only possible reason I can see why the club signed them is purely for Ten Hag, because logically looking at their careers to date, they were never going to be the type of player that would drive the team into top 4, and they're hardly kids either so 10 years down the line was hardly the vision for them.

Ugarte may end up in that column as well, PSG wouldn't have got rid of him if he was the type of quality in midfield they need. But I'd give him a big pass as he's probably been our most consistent performer this season and at 23 is relatively young so should improve.

INEOS really sh!t the bed when they didn't fire Ten Hag after the cup final and gave him a €200m war chest to waste. You could have had 7/8 solid premier league players for that money.

I don't know what transfers they're planning for Amorim in the summer, but I seriously hope it isn't a few rejects of some big clubs.

It's also a reason why we are so bad at home imo. We get ripped apart in the wide spaces of OT.

As a first signing, Dorgu might point to that being addressed, hopefully.

Its a complete dismantling and rebuild. There is no money. Until all the fat contracts are off the books the rebuild cannot even start as it sets the baseline wages for any perspective signings. Bruno needs to be sold too while he still has value as he is the type of player you need to build around and he is already 30. If we can find someone to pay 40m for him we should bite their hand off.

So until United are no longer paying the salaries of Casemiro, Rashford, Fernandes, Antony, Mount, Sancho, Eriksen, Lindleof and Shaw nothing is going to happen to start the rebuild. Probably one of Hjolund or Zirksee need to move on too, but they are not outrageously expensive and one of them can stay as backup. Only then when there is room can we start from the bottom up. If at least 5 of them have not left the club this summer the best we can expect is a similar season next year as we wont be able to sign the players necessary. If we were somehow able to move on all of them we would still have a tough season but may see light that could start to bare fruit from 27 onwards.

A 25 man Amorin squad for next year for his system would need to look something like this:

GK: New First Choice, One of Onana or Bayindir, Best of young keepers

CB: DeLigt, Yoro, New LCB, Martinez, Maguire, Mazraoui

LWB: Dorgu, Amass

RWB: New RWB, Dalot

CM: Ugarte, New CM, Mainoo, Collyer, Kone

AM/10: Diallo, Garnaho, New AM, New AM

CF: New First choice No. 9, Obi Martin, Hjolund or Zirksee

If that does not happen at a minimum we are going nowhere. Be lucky to get half of it.

Are you being hyperbolic when you say until none of those players are being paid?

Eriksen, Lindelof, Sancho are certain to be gone. I think it is highly likely Casemiro and Rashford are gone. I think Antony goes on loan again at worst.

But I don't see Shaw, Mount or Bruno going anywhere.

But at that, I don't understand why a rebuild can't be started with the first 6 out the door in the summer? Thats like 70m off our wage bill or something insane like that - plus some profit generation from Rashford.

But we cant start the rebuild cause Bruno is still there?

As for the signings, I'd predict 5.

LCB, RWB, CM, 10, ST.

Agreed, I think we'll definitely see 5 or 6 in.

We all know the finances are tight but Sancho will be sold for £25m (confirmed), Rashford will probably go out for around £40m assuming he has a Rashford style purple patch for the next few months. If Antony continues banging in goals and racking up MOTM awards then surely Betis will be itching to keep him, or one of the more wealthy Spanish sides will want him. That should easily be another £30+. By fair means or foul we need to offload Casemiro.

The homegrown aspect of Rashford's sale is huge in itself, plus the fact that we spent relatively little in January and we're dropping a "bad season" off the PSR levels so we're surely going to be able to spend a decent amount in the summer. I don't think that will mean splashing out on £100m players, nor should it. But we should be able to bring in maybe 1 x £50m+ and 4 or 5 more around the £30m level. Berrada, Wilcox et al need to earn their money now and bring in the right type of players for sensible money.

And the fans need to appreciate that the players who come in the summer are not going to win us the league. They need to stablise us and push for top 6. Some will say that it's a disgrace for United to be targetting top 6 but tough sh*t. That's where we are now and all the hissy fits in the world about top 4 isn't going to make it any more realistic. Stability first, progression second.

The reality of the situation is that until we are back in Champions league and the debt situation where it is, we can only afford signings on <100k per week with possibly an odd exception. And if the high earners are still on our books, including players who are on loan, our baseline for first teamers is at 150k plus. So until we clear nearly all the overpaid underperformers off the books completely we are looking at at best unproven 30m players like Dorgu, rather than going for players we know can make a positive impact straight away. And ilke what I see of Dorgu and think he will work out, but this type of player is at best a 50/50 for a team who has CL notions.

The only other option is to accelerate some of the youth players though but this could come with a lot of pain and actually harm the long term prospects of some undoubted talent that is there.

SAid it before but the keeper is terrible. Can't do the basics right. Constantly parries shots back into play. DeGea needed to be moved on but this guy is not an upgrade in any way, shape or form.

Revenues are 600m+ (650+ projected for this season, so 600m without europe next season doesn't seem outlandish.)
Player wages are ~190m - and will drop signficantly as a starting point (with players to be signed to be added to the new 'base' - our player wages could realistically drop to 160/170 while improving the squad considerably.
Interest on the Leveraged debt is 25m.
We have (apparently) reduced staffing costs by ~45m
A large part of the other annual debt was the revolving crediit facility which has APPRENTLY been replaced with the money that INEOS invested.

I just disagree with your outlook. But you could be right, none of us KNOW how tight things are or what the budget will be. I think it will be far better than you do.

Sadly this is probably true.

All the fuss over Onana coming in was his ability with the ball at his feet. But every time I watched footage of him the thing that stood out was his tendency to block the ball into dangerous positions. There's no use producing a worldie of a save only for it to result in a tap in.

His positioning is questionable, he rarely claims crosses, he has plenty of howlers in him, but it was always the failure to clear danger with his blocks that concerned me.

The team has been screaming out for athleticism for ages now. Makes the signings of Ugarte, De Ligt and Zirkzee this summer all the more baffling.

Yoro we haven’t seen much of. I thought he was athletic but then that game against Southampton where he got torched for pace on repeat made me wonder.

You simply can’t play high press, dominating football when your back 3 is Maguire, De Ligt and Martinez. The midfield is similarly limited physically.

If you watch Liverpool. So much of their dominance is facilitated by the fact Konate and VVD can be left 1 v1 in 60 yards of space against any striker in the league. It’s the base in which all of their aggression is built upon.

A goal scorer is needed and should be top priority in the the summer. We created plenty of chances yesterday. If we had a human that could bury the chances the whole conversation would be different.

This team cannot score, chances are there but the confidence is so low we just can't put it in the back of the net.

Too much is made of the formation - his tactics allow a huge amount of changes in game where it's really the 3 at the back that stays the same. Having 3 at the back is not having an impact on us being unable to stick the ball in the back of net.

Same goes for the formation, we were shít as a 442, 433, anything else Ole or ETH have implemented. Suddenly changing to a 442 or whatever isn't going to change a thing.

Amorim's formation doesn't impact Garnacho missing a sitter, Onana parrying the ball straight to Maddison or our players not having a clue what to do in the box.

The major crux of the problem at United is the inability to stick the ball in the back of the net, compounded by a poor goalkeeper, a non existent centre mid and low confidence.

Honestly, play whatever damn formation he wants, the problem is that this was a top eight, cup winning side that now can't get a good performance from any of its players.

They are currently sitting in 15th and not one person here can honestly say that they see anything improving.

We want Amorim to win races but he can't even get the damn car started.

Problem with Hojlund is he still a young lad learning his trade and he is the leading line for UTD. He has no senior striker to be feeding off in training/games. A Rooney, Van Persie, even Igahlo would help the lad.

Don't think we'd ever had this problem before. Always had a senior to help bed in the younger lads afaik.