Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

You completely missed the point I was making.

When people mentioned 40k, those people supporting Israel said they were Hamas figures and cannot be trusted.

When a report about 200k dead being a more realistic figure, the same Israel supporters use the Hamas 40k as the death toll (despite saying Hamas cannot be trusted with the figures)

One Israel support says Hamas are a non state actor, so they cannot claim self defense etc... another Israel support then says Hamas is the government in Gaza.

I was merely saying the pro Israel people on this thread cannot even agree with each as if they just make **** up to defend the indefensible.

Seriously, all the matters you're outraged about have been debated ad infinitum here over many months.

Many have defended exactly what you are defending but corroborated evidence to the contrary has been given in spades.

I've provided three links below on how badly the Israeli economy is doing. I've no idea where you're getting your numbers from but here's a taster from the links below that can be read in full for the fine detail.

• The economic toll of the war may cost Israel an estimated $400 billion in lost economic activity over the next decade – threatens Israel's economic future.
• In the final quarter of 2023, the Israeli economy shrank by 20% caused due to labour shortages in construction and from the mobilization of 300,000 reservists.
• Israel's economy experienced a more significant decline than anticipated by market analysts, signifying the largest contraction in nearly four years, as reported by Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics' initial assessment.
• However, it is evident that Israel and the broader region will face tough economic times ahead. Its central bank has revised its growth forecast for 2024 from 3% to 2% and anticipates that GDP recovery to pre-war levels will take over a year.
• In August 2024, Fitch Ratings downgraded Israel's credit rating.
• 9,855 Thai workers in the agricultural sector, 4,331 workers in the construction sector and 2,997 in the nursing sector left Israel following al-Aqsa Flood. In addition, the prevention of 85,000 Palestinian workers from entering Israel created a shortage of about 100,000 foreign and Palestinian workers.
• Israel will experience a significant economic shock, with 90 percent of its impact stemming from indirect consequences such as decreased investment, a disrupted labor market, and hindered productivity growth.
• By 10 July 2024, 46,000 businesses in Israel were forced to close down due to the economic impact of the war, affecting almost every sector of the economy.Furthermore, on 12 July the port of Eilat declared bankruptcy resulting in it seeing no economic activity or revenue for eight months.

To be honest, your credibility is pretty much zero now in my opinion.

All of that is evidence that the Israeli economy was predicted to do badly.

It's all irrelevant now that the Economy is doing well.

Economists getting stuff wrong is nothing unusual.

You simply can't argue with the GDP growth figures . . . . . which is why you ignored them.

Of course Beni will be likely voted out. He's not popular and only got around 23% of the vote in the last election. That's what happens in democratic countries. Changing of the guard is all very routine.

What's strange is that you have repeatedly insisted that he is a Dictator.

Could you just illuminate everyone on this weird 4-year dictator system that only you seem to aware of, where Dictators get voted into power for 4 years and then get voted back out again in the next election and they just go along with it.

You absolute spoofer. How dare you slander me without substance. Old posts in Boards my eye! When was this old post? Why did you bring it up today.

You have zero integrity unless you can find such a post.

Weak apology accepted. Blaming the website, Jaysus.

As stated previously, I made what I would have considered a rather reasonable arguement on an Irish website that a terrorist group, Hamas, should immediately surrender and bring the war in Gaza to an end, approx 6 months ago.

I was attacked by 13 people, yes, i counted, all who seemed to find this an unacceptale proposition.

This was your response, remember, within the context of a suggestion that Hams terrorists should surrender.

Do you expect the Hamas terrorists to hand themselves in to the IDF? Is that the only end game you see? You know any Hamas fighter handing themselves in will be immediately shot. You get that right? They'll probably be shot as they approach.

Now, by any reasonable intrepration that reads like a man far more concerned about the health and safety of Hamas terrorists than the welfare of the people of Gaza and and early end to the war.

i mean, how would read it?

You think you have a reasonable interpretation?

You are arguing that one group of people, in this case Hamas, are totally responsible for the brutal actions of a completely seperate group of people who I suspect are in full control of their faculties, i.e. the IDF, and not the IDF themselves. That is not reasonable.

If military commanders in the IDF, a seperate body to Hamas, order their soldiers to completely destroy a whole city of 2 million people, because a terrorist group operates there, that is on those commanders and soldiers.

Hamas are a terrorist group. I'm not sure they give two f's about Palestinian civilians and would have no interest handing themselves in.

Sorry yes I knew about the corruption charges, and his attacks on the judiciary. It has long been argued that the severity of this war was to act as a smokescreen for corruption accusations, though it's hard to think someone being so ruthless. I had just assumed the war was working in getting Israelis to look the other way, good to see people seeing through it.

Just another example of this war being extremely dubious, and not representative of many Israelis.

Well, that's a different arguement you're making now.

Right now Beni is popular, as most war time leaders always are. The Israeli reponse, and, indeed, the response of any nation subjected to an event like Oct 7th would likely be the same. Any Israeli leader would have declared war and sent the troops in.

The war isn't dubious. I would imagine although war fatique has set in and people want the war to end, the israeli people support their soldiers at war against a terrorist organaisation that wants to eradicate them all from the face of the earth.

I don't know what reference you're talking about. If you've spotted something just post it and highlight it. It's a lot quicker.

If you had something of value you'd delight in posting it, so I'm just assuming that you don't.

I don't even know why you're persisting with this line. It's transparently simply not true.

Regarding GDP.

What is the best measure of economic growth?

GDP is important because it gives information about the size of the economy and how an economy is performing. The growth rate of real GDP is often used as an indicator of the general health of the economy. IMF.

Strong GDP growth. Strong economy. Simples.

Folks, Hamas are Palestinians and Palestinians are Hamas. You can’t hide in your supporting Palestinians but not Hamas.

Thanks as always walshb. So insightful as usual. On a wind up again or just fishing for likes? Pathetic.

Mod Edit: Warned for uncivil posting

You've lost the plot mate.

Within a couple of posts you've gone from "he's not been popular for a long time" , to "he's popular".

Seriously, take a rest.

It was a link you posted yourself - it really is that simple.

The link you posted mentions the BBC, Politico, CNN etc.

I didn't post the link at all.

I said that I'm not an economist, but I don't think GDP is a good measure in its own. Per my previous post, your own positive outlook is not shared be economic experts. Simple's.

$400 billion in lost economic activity over the next decade – threatens Israel's economic future

2023 - the Israeli economy shrank by 20% caused due to labour shortages in construction and from the mobilization of 300,000 reservists.

Israel's economy experienced a more significant decline than anticipated by market analysts, signifying the largest contraction in nearly four years

46,000 Israeli businesses have gone bust

He hasn't been popular and the votes show it.

However, he has enjoyed 'popular support' during the war period, which is not uncommon for war leaders.

Churchill was a hugely respected war leader and was then immediately dumped in the very first post war election.

It's not the big contradiction you think it is. Whaterver his current level of support, and the last time I saw about 6 months ago it was hgh, he simply is not a popular politician in Israel.