Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

NATO is finished. I have been trying to tell ye this for over a year. It's an alliance based on trust and nobody can ever trust the US again. Ever.

Europe is on its own and it should have been preparing for that for at least the last 18 months but given the clowns in charge nothing will have been done.

I'm a bit miffed they left me out, but I'll live.

Puts into perspective Trump's belief it's all about him.

For sure, but the NATO member states are also meant to be security, strategic, diplomatic etc allies and partners of the US outside of their NATO membership. Trump is effectively going the isolationist route and saying the US doesn't have any allies in this world at all. If a western state was attacked or invaded, would he come to their aid? It doesn't even seem likely.

In that scenario would you not put it past Trump to start militarily supporting Russia?

I can actually see it now.

No, geez the opposite, Putin would not dare do anything with Trump in power, it's the weakness of the West that started the whole thing.

Absolutely, even a two year old can see that.

Exactly, the only leverage the US has is that it's the largest supplier of weaponry.

They said they're going to keep doing this, it's just they want Europe to pay for most/all of it.

If the Europe pays the US, makes it themselves or buys it from another country then the US are out of the picture.

Russia's economy will eventually collapse at a 21% interest rate and resupply donkeys show the state of their military.

To negotiate a deal now that already seems heavily weighted towards Russia is insane.

Europe needs to take control of this, let Trump and Putin have their meeting and just ignore them.

Trump will eventually get bored and move on to something else.

Yeah, but I'd double down on getting them from EU sources, rather than the US, where possible. Rewarding the US is the last thing anyone should be doing.

Speaking of which..

Too soon to call? Harsh, but fair? Someone has to say it?

No doubt the Munich conference will bring up some differing views and speeches from world leaders and no doubt Ukraine will be top of the list of topics.

I don't think it was mentioned when Trump made his comments the other week but he repeated it again it last night. As has been mentioned by a few here countless times for the second time he repeated that he recognized Russia's red lines on Nato. Possibly the most significant sentence made by a western leader in decades.

It makes you wonder how things would of gone if Nato and it's member states just kept out of this conflict given the sole aim of it is to only defend it's members. Just my opinion but it is now finished as we know it, as it should of been 30 years ago.

All about opinions i suppose.

The Trump remarks on Russia just reinforce the fact that the US can no longer be relied on during a crisis. He is not and is never likely to be a respected figure in international politics in spite of his power.

Even though I disagree with Trump trying to do this deal with Putin and leave Ukraine out of it, it is utterly pathetic that Europe doesn't do more to protect Europe itself from Russia, and is extremely reliant on America for defence. It's shows how the EU is a complete and utter failure in a lot of ways.The EU was set up partly to try and ensure that war (like WW1 and WW2) in Europe would never break out again so surely defence and a defensive military alliance should have been a key part of EU policy all through it's existence and it should have been the case that europe was completely self sufficient for defense and didn't need America's help.

I can completely understand why people in Ameriica would be frustrated with their tax dollars being spent on a war 5,000 miles away.

Commission can only do what the member states unanimously allow when acting outside the EUs competencies.
Responding to Trump taking a hammer to NATO alliance and egging on Russia…to me that probably involves Europeans putting up lots more money to build their own weapons/replicate some essential US capabilities they depend on, organising around US roadblocks in NATO or using the EU as alternative forum (maybe together with UK), expanding their militaries, maybe even organising an European nuclear deterrent. It all seems slightly outside the EUs bailiwick. The Commission does not have the authority to do it.

Do you want Ireland having any part of this response to Trump and the new right in the US, or to be pushing it forward (we are an EU member) or are you the typical fairly politically extreme poster here (far left or far right), who'd probably say well f-ck all that it is not our problem if Russia ever attacks the Baltic states f.e.g., would prefer Ireland to obstruct work on it and veto, or even leave the EU?

You've rewritten history there (deliberately?). The UK blocked an EU response to the Eurozone crisis and the Eurozone members had to make an alternative plan among themselves instead. Brexit was an irrational act of self harm that damaged the UK and rest of Europe. Like Trump 2016, another "coin toss" vote falling out just the way Putin would have wanted + coinciding with what Russian "active measures" and propaganda in the UK promoted.

This stronger military integration should have been done at inception and have been a key tenet of the organisation.There should have been no possibility of rejecting it from any member states.

He also wants 500bn in return for the 100bn provided even though the 2nd figure is artificially inflated by about 60%

Zelensky (smirking) - “Sure thing Don we will get right on that task of liberating them minerals for you as soon as the first few thousand Tomahawks, F16s, Bradley’s, Abrams and HIMARS arrive”

Budanov (making a spreading the butter motion) - “Mr President about that bigliest parade in Kiev for you we discussed, I feel it would look very stronk with F35s flying overhead, protected by Patriots, let’s make Ukraine red, blue and white sir!”