Create a European Defence Force and Disband NATO in a few years

what’s the difference between a European defence force and NATO without the US?

sounds like the same thing to me?

It may be Trump saying it and acting on it but America's complaints have been legitimate for decades when it comes to the defence culture of European countries.

America paid for and provided huge defence before the fall of the Berlin Wall and after it.

What did European nations do especially after 1991?

They directed more and more of the 'peace dividend' in to bloated welfare states and away from defence.

Fine, the only problem is that that 'peace dividend' was underwritten by the USA and their willingness to maintain defence expenditure in Europe which they did. Instead of European countries investing in their own defence expenditure down the years they collectively slashed expenditure.

So the USA has for decades subsidised Europe's lack of willingness to invest in it's defence.

It's a very hard argument to win to say there is something incorrect or unfair about the USA's attitude on this.

It would have come to a head eventually but maybe it's better for Europe to have a reality check now.

People will be annoyed just because it's Trump saying it but on this they are not wrong and it's in Europe's interests to invest considerably more heavily in defence (all countries, neutral or not).

Upheaval is just how it goes.

Through history this or that political entity grows, peaks, declines. And now we see the downward trajectory of what was the brief "pax americana" (a bit of a grandiose term but whatever).

Now all through the media we see various dramatic efforts for sales and clicks by the use of red scares and europe panics headlines.

Theyre all based on a 1980s understanding, boomers reliving the threat of soviets to a divided and dependent Europe.

I however have rarel felt so optimistic about Europes approaching course.

I see forces finally resolving, albeit it in the most tragic ways. These things were set to happen, and will bring about a solidified empowered EU.

Tbc

You make it sound like the US got nothing from that deal. By providing the security umbrella they were able to sell far more of their **** to Europe.

They also kept a hold of the political direction in Europe

So lets start with the most evident realities.

Russias relations with Ukraine are done for a few generations. Ukrainians rightly hate Russia now, and will for decades. Russia has pushed this vast resource rich country and its brilliant people towards the EU.

Who will get the land? Still in play. Who has Ukraines heart. Easy, the EU. Donald just ensured that. While EU takes millions of our Ukrainian neighbors in the US wants to take their homeland as a pay off for earlier promises. America first baby.

Next lets have a look at Putin and Lukashenko. Both in their 70s.Their peoples having lived under their failing dictatorships. Theres no politicking natures course. Both have 2 decades max left at the extreme. Realistically both will be at least out of power in 10 years.

Leaving the door open for reform. The EU being the central power on the continent. The only game in town.

TBC

Russia next. In shīte order. A 3 year 3 day operation. A 1c rouble. Locking up butter in the shops. Productivity is no longer on consumables, the economy propped up by war production, you cant eat rifles.

Brain drain, working age men dead, injured, deployed. Oil infrastructure getting destroyed.

tbc.

and if Russia doesn’t want Ukraine joining the eu? What will the eu do about it?

The process takes some time anyway.

In the meantime begin reforms and "totally not eu related" agreements.

Ukraine and EU can wait, Russia is on a downward trajectory.

Why not? Putin and Xi are on the same side.

Indeed, the US doesn't see Russia as a strategic threat to itself whereas it does for China. It doesn't have the capacity to both focus on China and Europe and given the formers strategic priority, it's telling Europe that it's on its own

It also clearly places a lot lower value on its alliances with Europe as Europe has been slow to back the US in its engagements.

The US also doesn't see Europe as a hegemon, certainly not in the same league as itself or China. There's definitely been continental drift in the last 10-15 years.

Maybe, just maybe if certain EU countries (Germany, France, Spain, Italy in particular) would pay the 2.5%-3% agreed of their GDP into the NATO budget, as they are supposed to do, Trump wouldn't be threatening to pull the US out of NATO.

The fucker said all this 8 years ago, and once again, certain EU nations are still dragging their heels on this.