Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

1238239241243244434

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭protexblue


    Compared to what? The unwavering "the Russians are a bunch of incompetent nitwits bent on human wave tactics against a plucky underdog" that the US apologists utilize?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭protexblue


    It's this kind of racist throwaway the renders dubious all you have to say

    "though, in fairness, the fact that the Russian citizenry still haven't revolted against him and his corrupt Oligarchs in any meaningful numbers suggests it's something of a national trait"

    That "The Russians love their children too" sought to highlight the fact that folk are pretty much the same everywhere. You clearly have such a bee in your bonnet about the Russian invasion - so much so that you spout this racist bile - that you simply cannot be taken to have an objective, sober opinion.

    Apart from the "begging the US for arms" bit (presumably the US benefitted somewhat from the arrangement - not least a late, late entry into the war) you were doing pretty well with the rhetoric … until the end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭protexblue


    Proof? Who can prove anything? It's all opinion (although the ones earlier today: one citing Zelensky saying he had troops spread around the whole of Ukraine defending it, whilst Russia could concentrate their forces on the front and the other citing Ukraine OSINT) brought a smile to my face.

    I'm off the opinion that if the Western media is reporting a significant artillery overmatch in Russias favour then loss ratios will be equally favorable in the Russian direction.

    The only thing countering that reasonable conclusion is "the Russians are stupid" or that they are a very bad aim.

    I'm happy to leave those opposing opinions stand on own merit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,212 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The US is pivoting away from European defence to the Asia Pacific but this process has been ongoing since the Obama administration.

    Europe will never have the defensive capability of the US but it can have enough to provide a credible deterrent on the continent's borders.

    Frustration with Europe on defence, especially with Germany, did not start with Trump. The issue for Europe is that Trump is acting on that frustration.

    For too long Europe has been hopelessly reliant on the US for defence across the board. US technology, nuclear weapons, aviation assets, infrastructure and military personnel are all deployed around Europe. Look at the nuclear armed Aegis destroyers on 24/7 duty around the Med - that system alone is an enormous commitment.

    Every European country needs to get serious about defence and stop relying (less kinder phrases could be used) on others.

    And Germany has to get over it's guilt trip and arm itself like the rest of us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,775 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Russia's military and military systems are decades behind the West.

    Ukraine has a combination of the same gear and limited Western gear, some of which is also older stock, but that limited old stock (old by Western standards) is vastly superior to what Russia has.

    The proof is in the pudding, all you have to do is look at a map, the relatively miniscule gains Russia has made in three years, and the casulties it has sustained, the fact it could not establish air superiority, despite being a collossus versus a mouse in February 2022.

    Now, what you're trying to do, is twist all that factual reality into a new "fact" - this is all part of Russias masterplan to grind down Ukraine, that it's deliberately "holding back", but no-one in the real world buys that.

    These alternative realities are a common trait in those rabidly anti-US people who seem to side with all manner of despotic regimes simply because they're in opposition to US or US-allied interests.

    I note you also referred to some people on this thread as "US apologists", interesting way to describe people in Ireland who are discussing Russia's illegal and unreservedly botched invasion of Ukraine.

    For example, on the Israel-Hamas thread, there was a small number of people using the exact same language you are using here when referring to the IDF (paper tiger, and the rest), and amazingly, hyping up Iran as a vastly superior military to Israel via invented facts like Iron Dome does not and has never worked, Israel is terrified of Iran's airpower, and all that.

    Again, not compatiable with reality either and based on absolutely nothing but an inner fantasy they are projecting outward. The world knows Iran has a ramshackle airforce dating to the 70's and a barely existant air defense system.

    The mental gymnastics it must take to actually type out statements like Israel is running scared of Iran, or that the invasion of Ukraine is all proceeding to Putin's masterplan, defy logic.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,258 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Honestly, will you stop dragging the thread off topic?? This is a thread about the Russia-Ukraine war, not a socio-political debate on the merits/ demerits of US capitalism/ democracy. Your obsession is tedious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,258 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    "I'm off the opinion that if the Western media is reporting a significant artillery overmatch in Russias favour then loss ratios will be equally favorable in the Russian direction."

    More word salad. Can you provide a translation in plain English?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Putin is invading Ukraine. Russia was a much larger force, and for awhile now they have been using human-wave style attacks. Ukraine was a smaller military force and indeed performed remarkably well considering the circumstances.

    Most people naturally support Ukraine, they understand Ukraine has to use propaganda and optimism as morale is essential for their literal survival. That support comes from a good place. Conversely Russian troops are systematically murdering, raping and torturing Ukrainians in an illegal unprovoked invasion so naturally most people have little or no respect for them or Putin.

    The reality of this situation annoys Putin apologists, because it contradicts their simple world views that NATO/US/etc are to blame, which is also Putin's view. They act as if Putin has no agency, which is contradicted by the fact that he's a dictator and could end the war at any moment of his choosing. They claim not to support Putin but constantly repeat his talking points.

    The reality of the situation is constantly at odds with their world views. It all results in a lot of frustration. Which manifests itself in all sorts of shenanigans, concern-trolling, etc. As we can see here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,212 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Deub


    There are proofs. You just chose to ignore them. Your posts contain nothing of value. You share your opinion with nothing but expect others to come with sources.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,258 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    All good points.

    Trump would do well to remember though that having so many allies, customers and military bases in Europe is a huge benefit to the US. If he alienates other nations (it's not just the EU he's acting the d!ck with) too much he could end up with a situation where they develop much stronger domestic arms production industries and defence capabilities, to the point where they start asking what's the benefit to them allowing the US navy, air force and army to dock in their ports, refuel in their airfields and station in bases on their territories.

    He may have been a master strategist when it came to commercial wheeling and dealing, but I think international diplomacy and geo-political manoeuvring are things that a novice octogenarian politician may find himself out of his depth on pretty quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    And that’s that.


    He will be hailed a hero for capitulating to Putin.


    Coward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 678 ✭✭✭engineerws


    USAID sponsored the maidan revolution. Read all about the the extremists and terrorists sponsored by USAID where the USA wanted regime change. A small amount can go a long way when it goes to psychopaths.

    Crocodile tears for Gaza? I suggest you read my history on that thread. You're wrong about that.

    I am against genocide in Gaza but am not suggesting sending atacms to the Gazan people to exterminate the 'orcs'. It's a far worse situation in Gaza than Ukraine.

    USAID started the troubles in Ukraine. USA money paid for the USA bombs that were supplied to the Israeli's to genocide Gaza.

    Anyway… very little point saying anything here. I guess I'm wrong about everything and the saintly Ukrainian's who named so many streets in their country after Nazi collaborator Banderas that Israel complained to them will be victorious against the orcs. No point in rooting for an end to the war when it much better to look at snuff movies and cheer on hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian's to their death except it's much less because despite the balance of power being completely in Russia's favour the Ukrainian's have been killing 100 meat bags/ orcs for every Ukrainian casualty and to be fair the Ukrainian's probably all recover in hospital and grow back their amputated limbs.

    Personally, I find it disgusting how people celebrate death and destruction on this thread. It's very sad that people are not shouting for peace in Ukraine instead of prolonging a stupid unnecessary war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,707 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    A sobering day for Ukraine :(



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    National traits are a common thing and "Russian" is neither a racial nor an ethnic group. Many races and ethnicities exist within the Russian Federation. So go away with your false claims of racism. Perhaps you're using the term incorrectly since handlers told you to avoid the term "Russophobia" since it's on everyone's bingo card for recognising your ilk? Debating in one's second language has got to be tough. Let's try and help you out with a lesson in English:

    Coward

    noun

    1. a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

    While there's no doubt that Putin and his siloviki make it dangerous and unpleasant to oppose them, there's also no doubt that they make life deeply unpleasant for the ordinary people they've done their damndest to brainwash for a quarter of a century. That the Russians haven't revolted against him in large numbers makes the majority of them cowards by the dictionary description above.

    Your attempt to assert that my opinion can't be taken to be sober betrays you comrade. Outside of your homeland, sobriety at lunchtime is the norm, not the exception (even in a country with a national trait of people enjoying the consumption of alcohol a bit much such as Ireland). Perhaps the word "coward" hit a nerve since I'm sure your compatriots being led to their slaughter by generals using WW1 tactics on the frontlines in Kursk consider the likes of you who do your "duty to the Motherland" from behind their keyboards cowards?

    You're not wrong that the US were a late entry into the war but at least their entry to it was on the right side from the start. Let's not pretend that the USSR saw the light and joined the allies out of some damascan conversion. They did it because their Nazi partners betrayed them. Also, don't think your selective quoting of that line wasn't noticed: the UK also supplied USSR with arms and they were involved in the War as soon as Germany and the USSR invaded Poland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,212 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    So now that Trump has spoken with Putin what will be the outcome of talks?

    My bet on the outcome:

    1. No NATO membership for Ukraine
    2. Line of contact demilitarised zone
    3. European peacekeeping troops on the western side
    4. Protection guarantees for remaining Ukraine territory will be implicit by the countries that contribute to the peacekeeping force but there will be no NATO, Article 5 arrangement or US troops
    5. Russia holds the territory it currently occupies (this will be the Russian compromise to not have all of the land area of the 3 oblasts it wanted)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    So Putin and his war crime buddies get away Scott free for all their atrocities.


    What a terrible deal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Based on the language looks like no NATO membership (absurd of course)

    Indeed looks like Trump will force Euro countries to peacekeep

    No idea about Kursk, the Russians are playing hardball on that (they always do it's their default). It's Trump so I expect either something strange on territory or lean towards Russian demands on that.

    Sanctions, we might get a split, half back and half on rebuilding

    All just guesswork - the one hour call with Zelensky is finished, awaiting details. I don't expect Trump to gush about it like he did the Putin call.

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭zv2


    Would that be the cretanous Chomsky from planet Thick-as-a-brick?

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,849 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    So he wants to give away stolen Ukrainian territory and steal Palestinian territory. Such a big mouth for a wet the bed who dodged the Vietnam war with fake bone spurs



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,804 ✭✭✭yagan


    The ceding of any Ukrainian territory would be surrender, despite what Trump thinks.

    Eastern European countries will know Russia would be back again later for a nibble so are more likely to throw even more resources towards Ukraine than towards their NATO membership.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,882 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I'll emphasize as I did with another poster. Russia was the aggressor, Russia invaded and you're justifying preventing states from engaging in basic self determination. If Ukraine wants to join the EU or NATO and meets the membership criteria, they should be allowed. It's called self determination. I would not be proudly justifying the actions of Russia as you are cause there is no justification and you are defending a genocidal state. You oppose Ukraine's right to self determination and to defend themselves from an invader.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    It will a terrible deal for Ukraine unfortunately it was on the cards once Trump was likely to get re elected Putin got his man in the white house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    incredible developments the last few days. American government ministers saying that ukraine has been set back 100 years by the war, that they were in effect 'hoodwinked' in fighting against Russia, that America are entitled to 500,000,000 worth of Ukrainian rare earths, that ukraine cannot join NATO, that European countries will have to pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine etc. etc. All, before presidents Trump and putin even start negotiating. Dizzying developments. What happens now, what future has Zelensky and Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Everyone wants peace, unfortunately when a dictator starts invading your country you can't just say "time out", he's never going to stop unless stopped. He's not there because of some spat. He's there to take over the entire country, murder anyone in his way, erase the language, erase the culture, subjugate the country, steal the resources, steal land, force children to speak Russian, take away freedom, democracy, everything.

    Whilst he is invading the country, whilst Ukrainians are fighting for their lives, for their future - clutching your pearls and exclaiming "why can't their be peace" all the while parroting and regurgitating propaganda from the invader demonstrates zero grasp of reality.

    That's one hell of a rabbit hole.

    If Putin were invading Ireland instead, slaughtering us instead of Ukrainians, forcing Irish children to speak Russian, stealing our resources, would you be writing any of this stuff? Of course not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Jesus they are really out today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Woodie40


    Shame on Trump and his supporters. Surrendering to Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,440 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You have been given multiple opportunities to provide balanced facts from the telegram sources you use and have managed to belly flop the landing each time.

    Other posters also see this and take your information as an attempt to push an agenda.

    I don't really mind as it's good to see what russia is pushing to it's subordinates (like the "must drop non-working sanctions and odessa will fall" guy), but not surprised to see push back from others.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,012 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's grim indeed, but I do understand that the Ukrainians are so weary at this time, it's brutal for them. All I hope is that if there is some deal they get the most out of it.

    Heartbreaking and vicious for any of those who have been trapped in occupied territory.



Advertisement