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When did the last deflector close ?

  • 16-11-2024 03:52PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Shan Doras


    They were so uniquely Irish



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭GIMP


    There was a deflector outside Ballaghadereen ithat stayed broadcasting for years after the majority of the others closed, I think it was on a hill in Riverstown Co Sligo, It was fed from satellite usually 5 channels broadcast



  • Posts: 66 ✭✭ Blaire Thousands Weevil


    Shhh dont mention the d-word here you may resurrect some of the ghosts of the cable industry fanboys with their off-topic "so-called deflector" rants who once foamed at the mouth at every mention of the subject.

    Mullaghduff in Donegal continued for months/years after the official closedown. Some of the Mayo ones were radiating "Goodbye" messages for weeks/months as well.

    Dont know why the idea of DVB-T deflectors was never pursued especially given the failure of commercial DTT and the paucity of content on Saorview. I suspect in a lot of cases the operators were getting on in years (most of them had been in the business since the early 1980's) and were losing interest. The decline in the number of paying subscribers and the failure of the South Coast outfit didn't help.

    There's an interview with the operator of one of the Mayo deflectors knocking around on youtube

    Joe Gibbons: Mayo Community TV

    Probably more for the "broadcasting history" board at this stage although bizarrely the "Terrestrial" forum brief still mentions "deflectors, and analogue reception" (Does this stuff ever get updated ?)

    "They were so uniquely Irish"

    I believe there was something similar all the rage in Italy for a while in the mid 1970's (and later in the Sudtirol region)

    The Olive Grove Revolution - International - Transdiffusion Broadcasting System

    TV Koper-Capodistria - Wikipedia

    Italian "deflectors" carried TV from the Italian speaking regions of Switzerland, Yugoslavia and Monaco with the South Tyrol ones relaying channels from Austria and Germany

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭RoTelly


    "When I came back from England we only had RTÉ1 and a very bad RTÉ2"

    It just shows how quickly RTÉ had forgotten why they had set up RTÉ2. Within a year of it being set up it was considered a failure.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


    ______

    Just one more thing .... when did they return that car

    Yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I've always thought that the deflectors were fed from one terrestrial antenna to the next? They ware in the analogue days, not in DVB-T times? They usually carried BBC 1 and 2, ITV and Channel 4, rarely Channel 5.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭GIMP


    This setup had 5 channels, the normal 4 and the 5th channel was ch 5, sky news, a movie channel, it tender to rotate from what I recall



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  • Posts: 66 ✭✭ Blaire Thousands Weevil


    I took it as meaning the reception on RTE2 in the area was for some reason not up to scratch at the time but he could have been talking about the quality of the programming or even both.

    Deflectors originally sourced their programming from NI or Welsh analogue transmitters (or other deflectors) but as these channels became available on digital satellite many of them started to source them from there instead. A lot of folk claimed that in doing so they were in breach of some non-existent clause of their licence without ever been able to quote the actual alleged licence clause.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    @Blaire Thousands Weevil, you seem intent on using this thread to replay old battles on this site of mainly historical interest at this point. There’s no need to do so. I’ve no problem with a thread on deflectors (and when Freesat eventually goes I’ve no doubt we’ll be seeing some modern counterpart of them spring up to provide rural viewers access to the BBC) but there is really no need to try and restart arguments that are long over and most posters don’t remember at this point.

    The issues with the forum descriptions has been flagged to the Admins which is all I can do really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭RINO87


    In the midlands we had a great service in the late 80's early 90's that carried the regular UK terrestrial as well as all sorts from whatever Sky had at the time.

    We had the sky channel (later sky one) the movie channel (later sky movies), eurosport, screensport, sometimes RTL would even show up... amongst others. Birr and District multichannel think it was called.

    It went off air for a couple of years when the MMDS licences were awarded, was around sporadially if you manually searched for stuff...came back on regulary in the late 90's and was fully legal in the 00's, but only carried the 4 main UK channels at that point. Still, having bbc/itv for Euro 2000 was mecca for early teenage me!

    Relied on voluntary donations. Remember the scrolling txt at the bottom of Ch.4 asking for subs to be left in "x" shop.

    It operated right up to the launch of Saorview, and maybe even a couple of years after. A fantastic service, excellent picture quality…well done and thank you to those involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    When did the "Deflectors" start to Limerick and Kerry?
    I've seen the rotting arrays of aerials at Keepers Hill (one set for Wales and one for N.I.), no doubt used by the local cable people before they got the Microwave Link to Cavan.

    Certainly some were running in the early 1980s, but were any running as early as the summer of 1979? I moved to Limerick in February 1983. I'm curious for a story I'm writing set June to November 1979 in Limerick and Kerry. I did meet some "operators" around 1983-1984. Their problem was getting enough subscriptions to maintain, never mind a profit. Some were TV dealers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Ironic that by the time Comreg legalised them (Deflectors) Ch5 was FTA Analogue Satellite and when UK Sky Digital started it wasn't hard to get the card for the "Free but Scrambled". S4C was FTA first and there was a while that C5 was still FTA on 19.2E Analogue with fake "encryption" flag, but really encrypted on Digital.
    My mum in N.I. didn't know that C5 existed till she got Sky Digital!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Also I remembered last night that one Deflector association asked me in (about 1984 or 1985) to contact the BBC about royalties or licence.

    1. The BBC /UK didn't and probably still doesn't TV licence payments for viewers outside of UK, IoM and Channel Is.
    2. They had no mechanism then to accept any sort of royalties or subscription.

    The later legal threats (1997?) by MMDS/Cable operators would not have been allowed in many countries as it's purely up to the rights holder to sue for royalties, not any ordinary commercial 3rd party. But the Deflector operators couldn't afford the lawyers that the Cable & MMDS companies had in any civil dispute. It was only a civil dispute, because though unlicensed transmitters, Comreg rarely took action, except in Band II.

    BBC Europe in 1987 might have been the earliest BBC subscription service. But I'm not sure if Wikipedia is reliable on this subject or on BBC Prime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,166 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So Cablelink were telling porkies in the late 80s (or early 90s?) when they put their prices up and said it was because they had to pay the UK broadcasters royalties? It always seemed a very odd situation.

    P.S. Great to see you on the forum again Watty.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    Ray Burke shut down the deflectors saying they were illegal etc and we all know where he ended up himself !! We had one up in the Galtee Mountains supply BBC1 & 2 Wales, HTV and S4C, it covered Mitchelstown, Fermoy and quite a bit of North Cork.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Later they had to pay royalties. Unlike Denmark with BBC mix1/2 they didn't even ask the BBC. Denmark was first. It was probably in the later nineties that the Cable & MMDS paid. There were at least two others as well as Chorus and NTL.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    When did the Galtee one start? Maybe I can work it into my story.



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    He wasn’t wrong, they were illegal, on multiple fronts, not just the copyright law issue (reproduction of BBC, ITV, and. Channel 4 content) but they were effectively operating terrestrial television stations without a licence. That latter issue was fixed, only because the 1997-2002 coalition was dependant on Tom Guildea for a majority. Dunno if the copyright law issue was though. But Watty is also right, the cause of action for breach of copyright lay with the broadcasters not the cablecos so I’m not actually sure what the cablecos basis of legal threats was particularly since they mainly operated in non-cabled areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    Late 1983/early 1984 I think, I remember my brother, who was doing electronic engineering in college at the time, got an old band 3 vhf aerial and cut the elements on it to turn it into an UHF aerial and my cousin in London ( RIP), sent him the parts required to build a little masthead amplifier for it, all a bit crude, but it worked ( we probably couldn't afford the colour king aerial and proper amplifier at the time ) and my first memories were of Michael Fish doing the weather on BBC 1 Wales. Those were the days, great fun experimenting and the novelty of being able to see UK tv for the first time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    "I’m not actually sure what the cablecos basis of legal threats was particularly since they mainly operated in non-cabled areas."

    "We've got expensive lawyers and you can't afford them, and (smug) though we didn't pay for years, we are now. Besides, really you're illegally transmitting. You can't afford the publicity or the lawyers."

    My sympathy was with the Deflector operators, but since they hardly made any money, or ran a loss, it was simpler to turn it off. I think it was the combination of roll out of MMDS and actually finally being legitimate was why the Cable guys did it. Note that the original cable in Dublin was owned or part owned by RTE at the start and one wonders why? They didn't pay any content royalties.

    Edit:
    Even if they hadn't actually started MMDS roll-out it was sort of irresistible legal trolling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Let's not forget the Donegal single-issue single-term TD Tom Gildea who got deflectors temporarily legalised until DTT was rolled out.

    https://irishelectionliterature.com/2011/12/18/leaflet-from-tom-gildea-tv-deflector-candidate-1999-local-elections-glenties/



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Not really the place for discussing politics but only happened because the first Bertie Ahern government was a minority government that depended on him and three other independents to get their programme through. And that only fixed the licensing issue, not the copyright one. I think there may have been a term in the licenses that required them to sort the latter but equally the ODTR (proto-Comreg) was under pressure to sort the issue out, so anyone’s guess as to whether it was.

    Later there was a bizarre situation where one of the deflectors in Cork wanted a license to operate an MMDS service (or a rose-by-any-other-name version - they refused to refer to the technology as MMDS, since they’d spent a lot of time criticising it, and came up with an oxymoron like “terrestrial satellite”). Can’t remember if it ever got going but if it didn’t last long if it did.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,746 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    So single issue that he spoke, I think, three times in the Dáil and each time was on deflectors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,746 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It did, briefly but possibly only for test customers. Using satellite frequencies, dishes pointing North instead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 184 ✭✭Rain from the West


    Deflectors made an appearance in West Mayo in 1982 I think. Main mast was on a hill near Balla that took the signal from Brougher Mountain. The Balla mast in turn sent the signal to other locations such as Westport. The system closed down in May 2012. Installers of FTA satellite equipment did a roaring trade for a while after.

    As for deflectors making a return when 28.2E eventually ends, I'm not sure if it's a great idea technically. Where we were, the old analogue deflector signal suffered terribly during persistent high pressure conditions (tropospheric lift). With DTT and the digital cliff edge, there would be periods of no picture at all, which would leave the potential viewer pretty unhappy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Antenna


    The MMDS operators' legal actions in the 1990s focused on a 'letter of comfort' that had been written by Ray Burke as minister that the illegal deflectors would be eliminated (shut down if they did not voluntarily close down) within a short time of MMDS commencing service in an area. The Dept then actually taking such action of course did not happen as it was such a political hot potato. More on the link below:

    Tribunals of Inquiry (Evidence) (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1998 – Dáil Éireann (28th Dáil) – Wednesday, 3 Jun 1998 – Houses of the Oireachtas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I suspected it had to be connected with MMDS rollout otherwise why would they care?

    I've moved my story from 1979 (the postal strike and fuel crisis added something) to 1 June 1984, which is definitely a period with Deflectors and also adds Apricot & Sirius from ACT as well as IBM & Clones. No '286 till after my summer time period though it was out since 1982, because it was a really bad design. Serious mistake OS/2 being for it instead of 386 which fixed flaws of 286. The ARM, 68000 and others years before 286 were better. The 286 was rubbish for MS Xenix compared to older 68000 for UNIX, BSD and Cromix.

    The story might end at the time of the earthquake in Wales in July 1984

    EDIT: Misremembered ARM date. Out of Coffee Error. REDO FROM START

    Post edited by watty on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,166 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The ARM 1 prototypes didn't come out until 1985.

    BBC2 (in particular) could be unwatchable for days at a time in high pressure conditions in summer in Dublin (Cablelink) in the 80s

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Yes, made a mistake on the ARM. Though there were other real 16 bit CPUs better than the 286, which Acorn didn't like either.

    Not so many people realise ARM was first in a desktop workstation (Archimedes), which ran Risc OS and by 1987 ran UNIX. Yet the Nokia Communicator used a 486 in 2000, before the N9210 using the ARM. Apple invested to have the ARM for the Newton. The handwriting conversion was overhyped, but Jobs shouldn't have killed it off. I still have a couple of copies of The Acorn User featuring the Archimedes.

    I first encountered the 386 in an office in Dublin in 1987 where they had a test to see if a particular 386 had the multiply bug. I think they were looking at patching a compiler to not use the buggy instruction. Intel would never have been so big if IBM had chosen something more sensible than the 8088 for the PC.

    I declined Cable in Dublin in late 1980s and in Limerick in early 1990s. I said I'd rather watch nothing than that quality. But I'd worked in the BBC and in a company supplying video systems in the 1970s.



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