Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I was discussing income tax, which is calculated as per below. The point being not everyone loses half their income as poster is suggesting.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money-and-tax/tax/income-tax/how-your-tax-is-calculated/

The first part of your income, up to a certain amount, is taxed at 20%. This is known as the standard rate of tax and the amount that it applies to is known as the standard rate tax band.

The rest of your income is taxed at the higher rate of tax, 40%.

Prices are going to increase, its government policy… are you currently renting? Laughable, here is bloody prime example! Of someone capable of borrowing a serious sum of money, still cant afford a home… MEANWHILE, thousands of welfare layabouts, are put up in new build apartments in south dublin, for nothing… no management fee of thousands a year either… Paid for by working people, who cant get a place of their own. This is going to start causing serious resentment issues and is morally corrupt, beyond belief. it is also for obvious reasons, becoming a bigger issue, as property prices increase ten per cent a year, the benefit of getting housing for next to nothing versus actually paying market rent, is an obscene redistribution of wealth and resources…

Where in south dublin are you looking? its a big area… Also, are you sure you want an apartment?

Been there, it’s miserable. One of the most awful experiences in life.

My only advice. Comprise on the apartment and be willing to pay more than you ‘think it’s worth’ to get the misery over with as fast you can. It’ll always feel a bit uncomfortable. You’ll wish it was cheaper.

But 2 years from now you’ll have your own place. Your salary will have gone up, your tax bill will have gone down and you’ll barely remember what you paid for it.

If you’re currently renting. The probability you’ll be better off waiting a year when paying a 6%-8% rental yield and salaries are inflating at 5% and you’ll be a year older so your borrowing capacity will fall is pretty close to 0%.

If you’re living at home. Life’s too short.

Define "proper infrastructure". In plenty of American and Australian cities having a car is as required as Dublin, and the suburban sprawl is even worse.

Dublin is more "cosmopolitan" than most Anglosphere cities these days, if foreign born population is the definition, which it usually is.

Median house price in Sydney is €880,000. Median rent is €550 per week. Have a look yourself at the figures for Irish emigrant hot spots like Toronto, Melbourne, London, NYC, Boston etc - they're as bad, or worse, than Dublins.

Again, the data is really clear on this - there is no wave of emigration in Ireland:

"In the year to April 2024, 30,000 Irish citizens returned to the State while 34,700 Irish people emigrated, leading to a net outflow of 4,700 Irish citizens from the State."

During the 1980s, or early 2010s, there was a net outflow approaching ten times that amount leaving per year.

Poster has a 30% deposit. Negative equity won’t happen. A drop in prices post purchase would actually be helpful to upsize.

If prices did somehow utterly collapse. Banks will stop lending. Poster may likely have lost his job. Way better to be in a mortgaged home than rental at that point!

Also, some people go on about apartments like they’re prison cells. Very Irish thing. They’re absolutely grand!

Thanks. No, of course I don't want an apt but I need to be located in this general area for a number of reasons. Work, help a close family member with additional needs a lot etc.

I might just bout might be able to get a new build house somewhere in co. Kildare if house was an option but if be quite isolated and wouldn't have any network at all nearby.

Was just replying to a poster correcting their assessment of the highest marginal tax rate.

Ireland has exceptionally low income taxes on low to middle income earners. It then has a high marginal tax rate kick in very early which means the effective rate starts to climb really rapidly over a certain point. But yes people earnings €70k or less face a very reasonable (possibly low) tax burden by global standards.

Problem is people make labour choices on their marginal rate, not their effective rate. Do I work that overtime. Do I go for that stressful promotion…nah I’ll only keep 47.9% of it.

Vs the major places people leave for. Only Canada has income taxes as high as ours for mid-high income earners. US off the scales lower. Aus and UK also.

Nah. You've no control of noise or management fees, for a start...

How many people under 30 (who the discussion was about) are in the high earning bracket, though? I'd wager the vast vast majority of people in their 20s aren't earning over €70k.

And Ireland's 29% tax take on €70k, even if many were earning that, is broadly comparable to anywhere Irish people are likely to move to - on the same income in other countries $73k USD income in California you lose 24% to tax, 23% on taxes in NYC. On $116kAUD in Sydney you lose 24% to tax, $105k CAD in Toronto you lose 27% to tax, on $129k NZD in Auckland you pay 27% etc.

Incorrect, we have more Irish citizens leaving than returning.

Yes, I posted the exact figure for last year above when it reversed - a grand total of 4,700 people. From a country of about 4.3 million Irish citizens.

In the 1950s we had net migration of 500,000 Irish citizens across the decade, from a citizen population of under 3 million.

In the 1980s yearly net Irish emigration peaked at 44,000, from a citizen population of under 3.5million.

Between 2009 and 2012 we had net Irish emigration of 130,000 from a citizen population of just over 4 million.

Those were actual emigration waves. 4,700 a year, as at present, at under 10% of the same, is very much not.

Thanks. Will take a look. Unfortunately my work requires me to be in Dublin 4 days per week. My parents live down the country so I cant camp up in their garden. Anyway, we live in hope.

Ireland has exceptionally low income taxes on low to middle income earners

This was exactly my point though, correcting the other poster that not everyone is losing half their income as he has stated multiple times.

Yeah im in churchtown, great area... you can earn 14k tax free under rent a room. I'd be buying a house and possibly splitting it into two apartments, certainly a garden room is a no brainer. My point being, others are now paying your mortgage in its entirety or close to it, on a 400k value house...

And you actually have money to live. You then have far more options for a far better work life balance, of that's what you want...

oh yeah, never happening in churchtown for 400k, but it was a suggestion for the woman looking to buy in south dublin with the 400k budget… But in other areas… The garden room, would be the first no brainer… A few years back, the houses in meadow park, a few minute walk from Dundrum town centre were going for stupidly low money, given their location…

nutgrove avenue, unless they are in the cul de sac, are obscene… Coming from someone that lives on a main road, word of advice ! DONT!!! the prices are the same as quiet roads and they are horrendous to live on…