Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

In the middle east, it's a tax haven and the workers benefit with , am I correct in saying, no income taxes ? So a Canadian mate said, the Canadians want to know, if they are sitting on hundreds of billions, possibly trillions, why are they , like here, paying so much tax. If prices rise here say e50,000 a year. That is e100,000 after interest has been paid and that is AFTER tax!!!

Things are getting far worse if you're looking to buy... there is no rental availability, but I'm assuming rental prices aren't increasing by ten percent pet year?

You'd think, being a tax haven, they would extend some of that ridiculous generosity shown to companies with more money than God, to peasant workers... but no… this is very relevant to house prices. I mean they are rising more each year on average, or certainly in Dublin, than the comedically low entry point of the marginal rate of tax

The joys of post-lockdown Ireland...

Irish EAs provide such a shocking service for the amount of money they get.

The housing market is bad enough as it is, but the sleazy / rude / incompetent estate agents are just the icing on the cake. They're like car dealers from 30 years ago, before the internet brought some customer service to the industry.

Some sort of innovation that shakes up the buying process can't come soon enough.

What is their plan ? Live at home until they buy or inherit?

Or do it for years, can't handle it after a while.. end up sharing and being gouged on rent, then can't save enough for a home...

Get On the housing list ASAP , as soon as 18... or just get out of here, earn far more money abroad with a far better quality of life. Sun etc...

They spent years in college. They should probably spend ten minutes thinking about their future...

The real world figures don't back that up, though. We still have more Irish citizens returning than emmigrating per year.

Lots of young people talk about leaving, but when they look at the rental markets in the most common places to go like London/NYC/Toronto/Sydney its not a whole lot better there.

And of the ones that do go, the vast majority come back in their early 30s when it comes time to settling down.

Young people would be better off focusing on getting out the vote here amonst their peer group.

But its the exact same scenario in every major emigration destination for young Irish people. We've never emigrated in numbers to the EU, its always been the Anglosphere, and every major Anglosphere city has its own housing crisis right now.

Thats why our emigration numbers aren't actually significantly increasing, its very different to after the 2008 crash when for example Australia and Canada were doing far better than Ireland.

This is also the case - another point was that in the late 00s you could get 2 AUS dollars for every euro so the minimum cash requirement for travelling was easier to reach. Plus also there was huge demand in Australia particularly for skilled crafts trades so there was a large body of people who had little chance of getting work here who were qualified for longer term visas and pretty much guaranteed work over there.

You keep using the line "lose half your income", max tax is 40% and this is only on earning over €44k, which you may see as "a nothing threshold" but doesn't make it so.

edited to adjust correct figures.

Apologies for the rant but I'm feeling SO demoralised at the moment. Looking for a 2bed apt in South Dublin. Knew it would be hard but not this hard. Single buyer, late 30s so really want to get on the ladder.

I've spent every Saturday morning for the past 4 months going to countless viewings. I must have bid on 15 or more at this stage but I'm getting outbid every single time by couples mainly or cash buyers in a couple of instances and I'm looking at apts with asking price of maybe 30 or 40k to spare in my budget.

I went sale agreed before Xmas but it didn't work out. Couldn't believe my luck tbh. It was an off market sale.

Went to 5 viewings on Saturday, bid on 4. All were advertised at 350 to 380k. One is now at 445k today. Others around 400k so I'm out again. This is all after first viewing with more open viewings planned. I'm in a position where I'm so lucky to have approval for 300k and a 90k deposit which I saved over many years and still can't seem to get anywhere. I do realise I'm in a better position than many.

I know there is no magic wand but it just feels like the odds are really stacked against me and feeling sorry for myself today. I honestly don't know what to do at this point. I need to be in and around this location for a number of reasons so I'm quite limited. Honestly considering giving up completely at this point and just revisiting in a year or so but seems like my savings will be even worth less then.

I need to be around this area for a number of reasons including thst I have a family member with additional needs nearby who I help a lot.

I have considered moving to co. Kildare buy it wouldn't work really for family reasons and I wouldn't know a single soul there.

I wonder should I just pause for now but things could be even worse next year.

Apologies again for the rant. Hope others are getting on better.

I was discussing income tax, which is calculated as per below. The point being not everyone loses half their income as poster is suggesting.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money-and-tax/tax/income-tax/how-your-tax-is-calculated/

The first part of your income, up to a certain amount, is taxed at 20%. This is known as the standard rate of tax and the amount that it applies to is known as the standard rate tax band.

The rest of your income is taxed at the higher rate of tax, 40%.

Prices are going to increase, its government policy… are you currently renting? Laughable, here is bloody prime example! Of someone capable of borrowing a serious sum of money, still cant afford a home… MEANWHILE, thousands of welfare layabouts, are put up in new build apartments in south dublin, for nothing… no management fee of thousands a year either… Paid for by working people, who cant get a place of their own. This is going to start causing serious resentment issues and is morally corrupt, beyond belief. it is also for obvious reasons, becoming a bigger issue, as property prices increase ten per cent a year, the benefit of getting housing for next to nothing versus actually paying market rent, is an obscene redistribution of wealth and resources…

Where in south dublin are you looking? its a big area… Also, are you sure you want an apartment?

Been there, it’s miserable. One of the most awful experiences in life.

My only advice. Comprise on the apartment and be willing to pay more than you ‘think it’s worth’ to get the misery over with as fast you can. It’ll always feel a bit uncomfortable. You’ll wish it was cheaper.

But 2 years from now you’ll have your own place. Your salary will have gone up, your tax bill will have gone down and you’ll barely remember what you paid for it.

If you’re currently renting. The probability you’ll be better off waiting a year when paying a 6%-8% rental yield and salaries are inflating at 5% and you’ll be a year older so your borrowing capacity will fall is pretty close to 0%.

If you’re living at home. Life’s too short.

Define "proper infrastructure". In plenty of American and Australian cities having a car is as required as Dublin, and the suburban sprawl is even worse.

Dublin is more "cosmopolitan" than most Anglosphere cities these days, if foreign born population is the definition, which it usually is.

Median house price in Sydney is €880,000. Median rent is €550 per week. Have a look yourself at the figures for Irish emigrant hot spots like Toronto, Melbourne, London, NYC, Boston etc - they're as bad, or worse, than Dublins.

Again, the data is really clear on this - there is no wave of emigration in Ireland:

"In the year to April 2024, 30,000 Irish citizens returned to the State while 34,700 Irish people emigrated, leading to a net outflow of 4,700 Irish citizens from the State."

During the 1980s, or early 2010s, there was a net outflow approaching ten times that amount leaving per year.

Poster has a 30% deposit. Negative equity won’t happen. A drop in prices post purchase would actually be helpful to upsize.

If prices did somehow utterly collapse. Banks will stop lending. Poster may likely have lost his job. Way better to be in a mortgaged home than rental at that point!

Also, some people go on about apartments like they’re prison cells. Very Irish thing. They’re absolutely grand!