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How to remove this screw?

  • 23-01-2025 01:43PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭


    I am looking to adjust the shelves in my wardrobe, but they seem to have these "blind" type fixings as per the photo. I tried to remove it with a standard drill, but the angle is too great to get any purchase. I can't access it from the other side as there is another wardrobe and panel there. Any thoughts how I can move this shelf without destroying it?

    image.png


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 134 ✭✭Dave_D_Rave


    You don't screw it out as such.

    The drawer will pull out then you can gain access to the screw

    If the drawer does not slide out currently have a look for other fixings either underside or other side of wardrobe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Looking at your photo, the "screw" is attached to the vertical panel in the top left of the photo. The panel on the bottom slides out of that, there would have been a half moon nut that fits in that hole and rotates 90* to catch the head of the "screw".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭biketard


    GreeBo has described it well, although I think it's called a cam lock rather than a half-moon nut. With it removed, the shelf will simply slide away from that screw (the hole that the screw fits through is big enough for the head of the screw to fit through comfortably too). I'm guessing there are probably two of them as well as a couple of dowels. It will be the same at the other end of that same shelf (out of view of the photo). The problem is that you can't slide the shelf away because it is also anchored at the other end. You say you can't access the other side of that screw because of there being another wardrobe there. How about the other side of this shelf? Is it the end panel of this wardrobe? Can you remove that? That's really the only way you can get the shelf off without damaging it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    It's a shelf in a wardrobe and not a drawer. If only it was that easy!

    Exactly, but it's impossible to slide out as it's a shelf pinned in between two vertical panels in a built-in wardrobe. The only way to slide it out, as you suggest, is to disassemble the entire thing!

    Yup, that's the problem. This is a shelf in a wardrobe that is built up against a wall on the right side and then there's another wardrobe on the other side, so I can't access the outside of the panels that support the shelf from either side.

    To be honest, I wouldn't be too concerned if I ended up damaging it slightly if it's the only way of getting it out. I am planning on resupporting it on little brackets anyways so I wouldn't be relying on the existing fixing holes.

    Maybe I just need to cut around the screw so that I'd be left with a hole in the shelf at the 4 screw locations?



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭TherapyBoy


    IMG_7245.jpeg

    Rotating the other cam lock (in the direction of the blue arrow) will allow you to slide the shelf out in the direction of the red arrow.

    IMG_7246.jpeg

    If you don’t have the space to slide the shelf out to the front then you’ll need to remove the bottom half of the shelf (with a chisel or sharp knife maybe?) & lift the shelf vertically within the wardrobe. If you have the space to lift it you might be able to tilt/rotate it within the wardrobe enough to get it out. If this works you could return it into the wardrobe afterwards to resume its previous life as a shelf. However you will probably need to do this (removing the bottom half of the shelf underneath the supporting screws) for every screw holding the shelf.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 184 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    You need to remove the side of the wardrobe by undoing all the cam bolts holding it on and get to it that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,288 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    OP it will be something like this

    Untitled Image

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Thing is you'd normally only see those fittings used top and bottom to make the frame, they're not meant to be adjusted, whereas shelves will usually sit on little brackets which just push in.

    OP is that the bottom shelf?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Yes, that's exactly how they were installed.

    It's an upper shelf above my clothes rail. The plan was to raise it up so that I could put in two levels of rails below it. It also is sitting on a continuous timber along the back of the wardrobe. Maybe just for additional support and to stop it bending under heavy weight.

    The wardrobe unit beside it has those adjustable fixings you mentioned. That's what I was planning on reinstating at the new level, if I manage to get the shelf out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭standardg60


    You may be asking for trouble then if there isn't a further panel above it.

    If the shelves in the other wardrobe are adjustable could you put the rail in there instead?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    100% is a cam lock, but I didnt want to add any confusion :)

    OP your only option is to cut it out if you aren't going to remove the panels, however as standard60 points out you will be weakening the whole structure if you do this. Its adding as a shear support to stop the whole thing collapsing.

    That said since, if I understand correctly!, its positioned between another wardrobe and a wall. So if you really want to remove it without taking it apart you either need to break/cut the panel or try to cut the dowel from the cam lock. Its chipboard, so even scoring one side of the shelf from the side to the cam lock hole is probably enough to allow you to break it by pushing from the side you just scored…

    Then you could screw both side panels together with a connector bolt/inner screw such as below. (drill a hole through both panels, and put half of these through each side and screw together. This will have the benefit of stopping the robes from moving independently and allow you to line them up perfectly, if you so wish!

    image.png


    Also, be aware that there is more than likely a corresponding wooden dowel on the other end of the shelf. Typically its 1 cam lock and 1 wooden down on each side.

    The back panel is typically some 3mm hardboard that has the same finish as the rest of the robe on the inside. It fits down a rebate in each side panel and often at the bottom/top panel. I would be surprised if you shelf is part of the back panel, though it may have some panel pins in it, depending on how it was assembled!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Very thorough explanation, thanks!

    I'm not sure I get the whole "weaking the whole structure" bit though. Are full-height wardrobes without any internal shelves generally unstable?? Or is your thinking that the cam lock is doubling as a connection between the two wardrobes?

    If so, could I not just reinsert some kind of screw into the same hole that the cam lock was in? Then I wouldn't need the type of screw you've suggested.

    I didn't think about the dowels, but that makes sense. Wouldn't these cause a problem even if I do end up scoring either side of the cam lock screws? Surely they will prevent me from pushing the shelf down and breaking the chip board around it?

    Regarding the back panel, it's up against a block wall and there is a timber runner fixed into it directly under the shelf. So the shelf is getting some side support off that, but I don't think it's screwed into it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Think of a wardrobe as one of those collapsible storage boxes you get in IKEA, fixed shelves (and the back panel) stop the robe from doing what it naturally wants to do, which is collapse back to a flatpack :)

    If you remove the "structural" shelf, the only thing stopping it from collapsing in on itself are the dowels and cam lock screws. They will be quite strong, but as you will see when you take the shelf out, the chipboard that they are in has very little strength to prevent the dowels/screws from simply breaking out.

    If the robe was solid wood then it would be much stronger, even a cheap pine one would be stronger, but the long panels and short connection points between them mean you have huge leverage working to break them apart.

    The cam lock is purely to make it easy to assemble and disassemble. You could break out the dowel in the same way as the cam screws. What is the back shelf support fixed to? If its part of the robe then it wont be going into the wall. Either way I would remove that as a first step.

    Tbh, I would just pull the robe out from the wall and take it apart as it was designed! Yo have then thing empty already and they are quite easy to move.

    You will spend longer trying to break it out and risk damaging the side panels and then have to pull it out anyway !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Maybe my description of the existing situation is not the clearest, so I've created a diagram!

    image.png

    It's a built-in wardrobe so dismantling it in its entirety is not really practical. I don't really see how it would be unstable given it's built-in. It has nowhere to go!

    Also wouldn't it be hard to locate the dowels? There wouldn't be any visible indication of where they are, unlike the cam screws.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Are the top and bottom panels shared between the two robes? i.e. are they each 1 piece or 2?

    If you look at the top panel, immediately above the double middle panel, can you see any evidence of fixings, and if so is there 1 for each middle panel?

    Finally, are there already connector bolts/screws in the double panel?

    The dowels are typically in the same, relative location as the cam screws, e.g. 5cm in from the edge.

    You should be easily able to determine what the shelf support is fixed to by removing one of the screws, the length will tell you. You might also be able to see from above, as the back of the robe wont be tight to the wall, due to the side panels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    The double vertical panel can be seen from the top, so they are two separate top panels. I can see cam locks either side of the vertical panels on the top panels from above too.

    I can't see any fixings between the two vertical panels.

    Maybe I should install those screws you suggested earlier just to be sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    if they are separate then I would just pull out the one in question, remove the shelf as designed and then put it back in. Assuming its "wedged" into the alcove between the wall and other robe its not going to go anywhere.

    Just be aware that, some other time you are doing something to it, once you take the back panel off it will likely collapse and break itself. If I ever have one in this state (which can happen during assembly) I try to keep from laying it with any panels flat on the ground, keep the edges on the ground to reduce the forces trying to break it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I'll give it a shot. If it all falls down I won't blame you! Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭FreshCoffee


    Also keep in mind that the dowel(s) are often glued in with wood glue at assembly time.



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