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Forming the next Irish Government - policies and personalities

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 160 ✭✭topdecko


    Farcical that this situation was allowed to evolve. Letting Michael Lowry call the shots is always going to end up in ignominy. Suggesting that TDs can both support the government and sit on the opposition benches brings level of quantum mechanics to the political sphere that are unheralded.

    The scenes today were not becoming of a democratic institution within this fine country. BUT the fault lies entirely with FG/FF and the pied piper in chief Lowry. Opposition were right to protest and get this sorted out. Going to be a long 5 years with VM in charge of proceedings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Supporting the govt and being on opposition benches has been done previously. Numerous times. Tony Gregory, Mildred Fox, FF confidence & supply agreement. Jackie Healy Rae. Michael Lowry.

    Also Michael Lowry isn't "calling the shots". He was a negotiator for a group of TDs. I can't stand him - I hope the DPP take a criminal prosecution against him. But he's an elected TD, doing what elected TDs do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How many does it need to be explained. The issue is they negotiated the PFG and have committed to supporting the government on good and bad days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,460 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    So Martin and Harris have agreed to meet the Opposition leaders tomorrow morning at 8.30.

    This follows Michael Martin's ridiculous suggestion that the Opposition were trying to subvert the constitution. Now he's going to meet them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    The core issue is that the Dail, as voted in, needs to elect a Taoiseach who appoints a cabinet who govern the State whose job is to serve the people. That would also apply if MLMD or Bacik or RBB were to have enough support to be elected Taoiseach. If you're dissatisfied with the present system that allows for 'stroke' politics, or fails to vote out someone like Lowry, then do it at the polls. Grandstanding like today won't improve any citizen's life or welfare.

    If VM were to resign tomorrow and the RIG were to back away from the speaking time issue would that help any first time buyer or family carer or ill child ?.

    It's just politicians playing politics.

    But 'it's amazing that I miss the core issue'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭forumdedum


    If muddying waters it's absolutely crazy that they would take any opposition for idiots. imo opposition are correct to block this because no precedent should be set for this, even for a minute



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It’s nearly 60 days from the election.
    This issue was flagged a week ago and nothing done about it. They off for another 2 weeks after the Taoiseach is appointed. Forgive me if I call bullshit on your concerns for home buyers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭forumdedum


    There is no one more against SF than I and I can't stand Mary Lou. However, they are right here. You are either government or opposition and something really stinks here. Can't believe the stupidity of Martin & Harris to engage with Lowry. Have they learned nothing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,732 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Gov completely backing down according to IE https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41559718.html?s=09



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,460 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Very embarrassing for Verona Murphy, who isn't fit for the job and completely bizarre why she went for the job (other than for the obvious massive salary and expenses and the status) and for the incoming Taoiseach who shouldn't have accused the Opposition of subverting the constitution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,274 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    That is a surprise. I know he's got blueshirt connections, but it's a shame to lose another high level journo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,528 ✭✭✭robwen


    Caught a bit of primetime where Fionnan Sheahan was saying a Minister hung up a phone call with Sarah McInerney cause they didn't like the line of questioning, any know who the Minister was?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,732 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Healy-Rae

    here it is…

    Reaction from Michael Healy Rea on government formation https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22482674/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Apparently, it is coming out tonight that a deal was done but that Sinn Fein reneged on it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,274 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Looks like there's a plan for the morning...

    I wonder if FF/FG will support that approach? It seems sensible enough that they might, although how would you define who does or doesn't support the PfG i wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Says who? Because RBB said on newstalk this evening that he was in the negotiations today and there was no deal done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,728 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Didn't vote for any of the opposition parties but I think they were 100% correct to stand against this today. Amazing that Martin & Harris allowed Lowry & Co to call the tune like this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The smart thing for Lowry et al (the ones not getting a job) to do is to abstain on the vote for Taoiseach, FF and FG will have enough votes anyway. Then they can form a technical group, as it is impossible to claim they are in government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Extraordinary that FG FF and their support are out briefing that it is all SF’s fault when anyone with eyesand ears can see differently.
    pathetic shambles from FF FG.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That didn't apply in the past to Lowry, Healy-Raes, FF in confidence and supply, Tony Gregory and many more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,283 ✭✭✭Good loser


    What!!! I think Gavan's brilliant. He's light years ahead of the other two. Intelligent and efficient, long may he continue in the job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,732 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,595 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    In every other Dail, these discussions about Dail procedures and Dail time happened AFTER the government was elected, because, as of today, we don't have a government and we don't have an opposition. Until we do, we don't know who is entitled to opposition speaking time.

    Of course, we know that RBB and Paul Murphy consider themselves permanent members of the opposition, maybe SF do too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    We have people who have signed up to the programme for government and those who will not. There's no reason for government supporting TDs to engage with a technical opposition group since they already should have speaking time on behalf of the government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,419 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Whatever about the rights and wrongs of membership of the technical groups (which are nonsense anyway and should be abolished), the way the opposition parties and SF in particular went about voicing their objections today was a complete disgrace. Several TDs should be suspended from the Dail until they learn to behave and apologise to the chamber and the CC

    A minority of TDs prevented the majority from electing a Taoiseach. Democracy was subverted, Micheal Martin was right in his statement.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Verona Murphy to be thrown under the bus to save Lowry and FF FG blushes may be a short term fix but it doesn't augur well tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,688 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I know FFG love to blame SF for everything but its only right theres no Taoiseach as there is no numbers for government if the 4 independents are actually part of the opposition rather than government.

    That rubbish needs sorting and if it was Verona's idea she needs binning. Its absolute insanity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Emotive scaremongering now from RTE presenter Mary Wilson.
    'There is a storm coming and we don't have a Taoiseach'.

    Yeh, we do have a Taoiseach Mary, just as we had for the much longer hiatus in forming a government in 2020.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,460 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Verona Murphy left out to dry by the government. She's completely undermined but like everything in Irish politics, it's unlikely she will resign.



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