Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I responded to you regarding Trump as you quoted a poster who brought him up. I wanted to correct what I saw as a misunderstanding on your part. It's a separate matter to housing.

The state have everything to do with the housing market for it is the actions of the state that have contributed to the crisis. Regarding immigration, this is the direct responsibility of the state for it is the state that controls (or doesn't) the borders of the country.

If you cannot see the affect that immigration at the levels we currently have has on the supply and demand for housing, then there isn't much to discuss.

if they haven't yet bought, then they are FTBs themselves and will qualify for the same support on the next property they bid on.

If they are a landlord that wants to buy their 5th or 6th property, they dont get the benefit of a proxy deposit in the guise of Help To Buy; I'm ok with that.

Well whatever it was, it's clearly not hear anymore, and we're now seeing excellent discussions that get to the root of the problems. I think that's a win.

God just go out and talk to 100 random people and ask them about their experience for housing, a GP, using a hospital, or how many kids have to drop a subject in school due to not having the correct teacher for it the likes of Woodwork and Science are seeing a real drop off for specialist teachers. I can tell you that you will hear it for yourself. Do I have to go and get you numbers like

Hospital wait times.

People waiting to get the kids diagnosed for autism.

Access to services/operations.

Access to housing.

Patients on hospital trolly lists

Homeless list going up.

Crime rate up

stats such as no of Gards vs population no of Nurses vs population have all gone backward.

The likes of SVP having more and more people relying on them for food and other essentials.

Our spend as a country has ballooned up to support more and more people coming in and this at at a time when our birth rates have significantly slowed.

Now do yourself a favor (as you have to do a bit of work yourself if you don't believe it) so go out and ask 100 randomers their experience about all of the above you may get 10 people happy with their lot but I reckon 90 out of the 100 will have an issue with one of multiple of the above and also google the items I have listed that is more than enough proof that our public services are faltering due to over subscription. You can stick you head in the sand like our politicians but with Trump already aiming a missile at our corpo taxes (ye know the tax that has us the only country in Europe in a surplus) we could find ourselves in a similar scenario to 2008 when stamp duty hit the skids.

Captain contradicto here is bemoaning managers on 70k or 80k while simultaneously saying immigrants working low paid jobs are somehow shutting him out.

You also mention needing to save 70k for a 'bottom of the market matchbox apartment'. Where are you finding a matchbox apartment for 700k? I have seen nice apartments in Blackrock, Co. Dublin for under 400k.

The point about HTB is you do not need to have the entire deposit up front.

Is that all you're going to say? He's given you a list of demonstrable issues afflicting Ireland today, all of which may be connected to immigration, and you just call them anecdotes in a rather condescending manner? I think you need to try a bit harder if you want to rebut an argument.

Sorry all are connected to our migration policy. Our birth rate has been dropping since 2009 and our increase in population has gone through the roof in the same period so it has to be people coming in via migration that is saturating our services.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-plfp/populationandlabourforceprojections2023-2057/fertilityassumptions/#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20births%20each,60%2C580%20births%20recorded%20in%202021.

They have given a list of issues that they believes are to do with migration, with no actual evidence to back this opinion up.

I can't argue against empty sentiment with no actual evidence provided to prove that migration has caused the issues they are speaking about.

I have also said anyone who wants the facts can simply google any or all items on the list. If you don't want to do it Gary then don't and even if I took the time to put up links to the numbers its not going to change your mind so why should I bother. Anyone else who isn't too lazy to do some simple internet searching on the list I put the facts are damning about what immigration is doing to our services. Now do I want all immigration stopped - NO I would rather put the onus on our knob ends in government to build, hire, recruit and train to keep pace but until we get those numbers we need to look at the tidle wave of people coming in and bringing it to a standstill until we let our services catch up to the current numbers. God forbid our gombeens in power actually start proactively planning for the future, having said that in fairness when their shelf live is that of a term in office they only see the short term and their own interests. They will invariably kick the can down the road and let the next knob ends who are elected deal with it.

I have put up list to the facts that you can google for yourself or for anyone to google. You are refusing to look at it so no point in arguing with you. So if you want continue saying its my opinion let me flip this argument on its head show me facts that our immigration policy is not damaging to our current levels of public service or even put up a simple list like I did and I will take the time to review it. Good man Gary keep the head in the sand and I looking forward to this list?

Lads this topic is about Irish Property Market, while justifiably it's fine to discuss the impact of immigration on the housing market but you have gone on to talk about societal impact, gp waiting lists, crime stats, the levels of immigration that are acceptable to you etc.

I don't care that I'll be warned for back seat modding, but go and discuss your opinions on immigration in the dedicated thread and let people who want to discuss the property sector discuss it.

I think we should encourage native population growth. If we got the birthrate to the magical number of 2.1, we would have a steady population, with room to accommodate a small number of upstanding immigrants each year. A fairly stable population would be of benefit for future planning and for the environment, for there would be no need to build tens of thousands of houses each year nor deal with the systemic cost of huge population increases.

Of course, this would not deliver perpetual GDP growth…