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Are we excited yet?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Incentive is what happens to encourage innovation and entrepreneurship which then produces products services and jobs, an industry which creates and thrives, unheard of in this country as we are solely dependant on corporation tax, vat and income tax and a number of other hidden taxes for a government to waste, we produce nothing in this country, we pay more tax than most eu countries and it’s understandable that the concept of a little “incentive” to encourage the stimulation of an industry is completely alien to the citizens of Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Incentives provide more bag holders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Quiet Achiever


    I don't think you are describing incentives, you are describing not paying any tax on crypto earnings because you have crypto. Purely self serving. But we won't fall out over it .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    Did you abandon the Portugal dream?

    More lax laws there regarding crypto tax



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    It’s not a difficult concept, removing cgt on any investment asset would encourage to invest, a population of healthy investors is better than a poor population, the introduction of new investors from other countries brings in money and stimulates an economy, it is possible to stimulate an economy without taxing people to death.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭antimatterx




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Quiet Achiever


    The wealth trickles down



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭_BAA_RAM_EWE


    Wtf!? lol

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-billionaires-grew-their-wealth-by-e13-billion-last-year-and-global-inequality-deepened-6596981-Jan2025/

    THE GULF BETWEEN the world’s wealthiest people and and those living in poverty grew significantly in 2024, according to a report published by Oxfam today. 

    The report also highlights the prevailing disparities in wealth between rich countries in the Global North and poorer countries in the Global South. 

    The headline finding from the report is that the world’s billionaires got wealthier by €1.9 trillion globally in 2024. 

    In Ireland, billionaires grew their wealth by €13 billion last year, which equated to gains of €35.6 million per day. There were 204 new billionaires in the world last year, two of whom were Irish, bringing the total number of billionaires to 2,692 worldwide. 

    Ireland’s two new billionaires are brothers Firoz and Zahan Mistry, whose late father was Pallonji Shapoorji Mistry, an Indian-born Irish businessman who was chairman of the Shapoorji Pallonji Group and a major shareholder in India’s largest private conglomerate, the Tata Group.

    Oxfam said it takes just 5 days for someone in the top 1% to make what the average person in the bottom 50% makes all year in Ireland.   

    The report, entitled ‘Takers Not Makers’, has been released today to coincide with the beginning of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, where the world’s wealthiest and most powerful people convene for talks on the state of the world economy. 

    It also comes on the day of Donald Trump’s inauguration as President of the United States. 

    ‘Rise of a modern oligarchy’ 

    “We are witnessing the rise of a modern oligarchy, where wealth is used to build and consolidate political power and vice versa,” said Oxfam Ireland’s CEO Jim Clarken.

    At a global level, Oxfam noted that, “As billionaire wealth balloons, the number of people living in poverty has barely changed since 1990”. 

    Oxfam has predicted that the first trillionaires will soon emerge and that there will be “at least” five trillionaires a decade from now.

    “The capture of our global economy by a privileged few has reached heights once considered unimaginable,” said Clarken.  

    “The failure to stop billionaires is now spawning soon-to-be trillionaires. Not only has the rate of billionaire wealth accumulation accelerated – by three times – but so too has their power,” Clarken said.   

    Clarken also took aim at the incoming US president and his supporters. 

    “President Trump will be a president of and for billionaires, using his power over the world’s largest economy to slash taxes for the ultra-rich and mega-corporations, at the expense of everyone else.”  

    He said Trump’s administration will be “the richest ever to run the US government,” with a combined net worth of more than $450 billion, which he described as “unimaginable”. 

    “There are at least 13 billionaires appointed to jobs in his administration”, said Clarken. “And even if you exclude Elon Musk, Trump’s cabinet would be the richest in history.”  

    “Billionaires increasingly control not just economies but narratives and that is why in this report we challenge the popular perception that their vast wealth is deserved or based on merit,” he said. 

    Oxfam has calculated that 36% of billionaire wealth is now inherited. 

    “This report shows how extreme wealth is not simply a function of talent or ingenuity alone but built on the back of the work of countless others and taxpayer investment.”

    Legacy of colonialism 

    One statistic in particular highlighted the state of inequality on a global scale, as well as the legacy of colonialism: the richest 1% in the Global North extracted €29m an hour from the Global South through the financial system in 2023, Oxfam said.  

    Almost sixty years after the end of the historical colonial period, “our global economy is still structured in ways that lead to wealth flowing from the Global South to the Global North, and more specifically from ordinary people in the Global South to the richest people in the Global North”, the report said. 

    Global North countries control 69% of global wealth, 77% of billionaire wealth and are home to 68% of billionaires, despite making up just 21% of the global population, according to the report. 

    Clarken said that Ireland, “as one of the riches countries per capita in the world situated firmly in the power structures of the Global North,” needs to understand “our own role in this modern-day colonialism”. 

    “For us to truly honour our past and live up to our promise Ireland must act in solidarity and stand with the countries of the Global South as they seek redress, reparations and their rightful place in international economic and political power structures.

    “Our history gives us an appreciation for the position of the dispossessed, of the excluded and disempowered. 

    “Acknowledging how we currently benefit from global inequality should lead us to take an even stronger stance on behalf of those labouring under economic and political disparity and climate breakdown. 

    “We owe it to the Global South to stand squarely with them.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭_BAA_RAM_EWE


    ....

    Post edited by _BAA_RAM_EWE on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    I’ve never looked into moving abroad for the purpose of avoiding cgt, have a vague understanding that it would take over a year of living there, and by then the coins would be worth much less.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Quiet Achiever


    Yeah i was being sarcastic. He's proposing Reagan's trickle down economics, but just for crypto owners (because he holds crypto)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭dirk_dangler


    Well mister tax man i had my crypto on Coinbase and i moved it out to my own wallet, a few months later i received an email from "Coinbase" that my wallet might be compromised, so i clicked the link and followed the instructions to secure my wallet, and what do you know, it was a scam and all my crypto was stolen!

    This is all you need to do to avoid the 3 year rule, have for arguments sake €30,000 of ETH on Coinbase, spend €10 to move it to wallet, let it sit there for a month before you get "scammed" send it to another wallet for €10, so now you don't own it any more and it cost you €20 , now the "scammer" has €30,000 and will avoid the 33% CGT when they spent it in the USA, you have just saved yourself €10,000 doing this.

    Their will be dozen of more sophisticated ways no doubt if the USA scraps CGT on certain crypto, the EU will have to follow suit or loose out on all this money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    That ignores the role the leaders of the global south play in their own problems. They are massively corrupt and unstable. The global north doesn’t have to fix these problems for them if their own people won’t, that would still be called colonialism too. Our own country has a huge amount of corruption, the current refugee situation is being milked by politicians friends at the expense of the taxpayer, they do not control migration and intentionally keep housing supply low as they pretty much all own property.

    Post edited by Potatoeman on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭dirk_dangler


    Cant tax you on crypto that was "stolen" from you.

    If the USA scraps CGT on crypto everyone will be heading of to the states to cash out, you could even see a US bank let you exchange your crypto for $$$ and issue you a debit card that you could use world wide, the bank would be happy to charge a fee every transaction and make a profit, wont be anywhere near the CGT of 33%, and the USA will become the crypto capital of the world, something Trump wants.

    EU will be force to copy or loose out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 593 ✭✭✭antfin


    What you're talking about is tax evasion. You can do the exact same thing now and the legality would be the very same… ie you're liable for tax in Ireland.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,830 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Who told you that fairy tale? You really don't know much about banking, one word from the BIS and crypto will be locked down so tightly you won't be able to get as much as cent out of it. And the instructions to the BIS will come from the EU.

    The very automation that drives crypto means it is actually extremely easy to control it. It is just a matter of time as to when it will happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    There was a story from the papers posted here about a crypto ‘trader’ that got a huge fine when he moved to Portugal and hadn’t declared his previous trades. If you get caught you end up paying more. Then you have places like these being hostile to outsiders driving up property prices. Is all that worth the stress?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The mistake he made was to return to Ireland. Had he stayed in Portugal or gone elsewhere he would have not had a problem. If you are permanently emigrating and do not return to Ireland, even for a visit, you can ignore the 3 year rule.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Most people won’t commit to that. Never seeing friends and family again. Funerals, sick parents etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    You mean it’s very easy to track, not very easy to control, dirks example at evasion is terrible because it’s still traceable, he might be a good Link shill but he’d make a terrible criminal, he will now have the fbi waiting for him when he exchanges.

    Dont get it mistaken either, crypto is no longer at the mercy of the banking system, none of the banks would upset Blackrock, so this idea that if we decide it’s over then it’s over is another fairytale.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Tax avoidance - Legal

    Tax evasion - illegal

    There are a number of ways you can avoid CGT such as making charitable contributions or putting into a pension but what sane minded individual would wants to do either of these things?

    Another option to avoid tax which I have pondered (and this technique not likely to be feasible if profits are too high or too low) but if you have a high volume of trades in a year (tax man calls it a "high aggregate consideration") then you can be liable for income tax (50%) as opposed to CGT (33%).

    So couldn't one quit their job, have crypto as their source of income, you could technically cash out €20,000 in profit per year without being liable for any tax? If you have a spouse who also isn't working this could be higher

    This of course would require you to 1. quit your job 2. Have a spouse and 3. Make sure this would fly with Revenue beforehand

    Seems far-fetched but if people willing to abscond to Portugal then it's not so crazy either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭antimatterx


    I don't mind paying taxes. I'm in the position I'm in now because of the opportunities afforded to me by the generations that came before me and allowed to do this. I hope my taxes help the next generation have even better opportunities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Wish I could share this positivity but the thought of the allowance being only 1270 and this not being reviewed since the 1990s, that is pretty stupidly scandalous. At one point in the UK it was £12000 which would give way more breathing space to be more strategic with the trades.

    I would have taken way more profit before the crash in Nov 2021 had we not had such a crippling allowance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Couldn’t you create a trading company and avail of corporation tax?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭antimatterx


    My take on it is you make a stupid amount of money so fast in crypto so be it. I want Ireland to prosper. It needs takes money to do it.

    33% is in the high side sure. Are you really not going to invest because you'd rather pay 20% or 25%? You'll be much better off anyway than had you not invested



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    The corporation avails of the lower rate. You then need to extract it, which you will be taxed on at the income tax rates. If you have a regular job with an above average salary, some of your income from the corporation mY be taxed at the higher rate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭dirk_dangler


    You are living in the past, this is Trump we are talking about, he just puled the US out of The WHO and the Paris Climate Agreement, he is MAGA and don't give a hoot about the BIS in Switzerland, he will ignore them if he wants and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

    More importantly the BIS is also living in the past, they have been left behind and don't know it yet, here they are running a Committee on cross-border payments interoperability.

    The standard has already been set and SWIFT, The DTCC, Euroclear, Clearstream and countless others are fully onboard, the BIS are in the dark as the whole financial world will be moving onto CCIP in the next 18 months.

    CCIP solves the cross border, cross chain, multi currency, multi party payments problem, CCIP is just one part of Chainlink a US based crypto that just so happens to be a crypto the Trump organization is stacking with multi million dollar buys, $4,700,000 purchase of $LINK yesterday to add to the rest they have.

    The USA has show it does not care about the EU and has removed the EU as a economic rival and easily set the EU's economy back 20 years, all it had to do was get idiot EU politicians to turn away from cheap Russian Oil/Gas, and now Trump wants to sell Oil/Gas to the EU at a handsome profit, a double whammy.

    If Trump scraps CGT in the US, money will flood in from the EU and there is nothing the EU can do to stop it, unless they scrap CGT as well. It not beyond the realms of possibility American banks will allow EU nationals to open an account and deposit crypto for dollars and issue a debit card for world wide use, nothing the EU can do about that short of banning Mastercard/Visa and that wont be happening.

    Trump will do what he believes will MAGA and if it can hurt the EU economically at the same time its a bonus, so don't rule anything out.

    “They’ll understand it when we power everything." - Sergey Nazarov 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,598 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Money still needs to be repatriated to the country the investor resides in, this will incur a tax liability. Unless you think there will be an influx of crypto migrants to Crypto Valhalla just to avail of low CGT rates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭dirk_dangler


    I'm guessing EU banks/ Tax collectors are in cahoots with each other to squeeze every penny out of the EU citizens, if he had moved out of the EU and cashed out they would not have access to his banking details.

    If Trump scraps CGT i imagine there will be some provision to attract crypto from outside the US, boost the US economy and hurt the EU's, a win win for MAGA.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭dirk_dangler


    You are looking at this through the lens of the current system, if Trump scraps CGT on crypto its a whole new world.

    As for tracing the crypto, have at it, i had it on coinbase, moved it to my wallet, i was scammed and now dont have access to the crypto. Now what can the tax man do? Try crack the encryption?

    The tax man traces the new wallet with the "stolen" crypto, whats going on here , the thief appears to be using a DEX, the sneaky son of a bitch has swapped the "stolen" crypto for Monero, Poof! it's now untraceable, it can be swapped back to ETH and now deposited in a US bank, converted to Dollars Sans CGT and yours to spent in Trumps America or world wide with debit card.



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