Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Christ, this is a difficult post to understand.

No such thing as a hard-nosed world of business? Really? People go into business for altruism?

As for the attempt at look over there - how do you see Pride (Gay pride I assume you mean) sponsoring the Saudi League as being in business?

As for whether a Saudi businessman might prefer working with an Indian conglomerate I have no idea why you find the idea strange. In any case, here's one example.

Try google for more examples - it's your friend. You'll find plenty more.

the Jews should

That's an antisemitic comment. The discussion is about Israel, and more generally about zionism.

It's not about de Jooz.

There are plenty of wonderful Jews in the world, and they are not zionists - such as Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Norman Finkelstein, Max Blumental and many many more - although some of them are Israeli. Ilan Pappe, for instance. Please don't include them when you write about Israeli's support for mass murder.

As we're doing whataboutery here, how does that compare to the treatment of Dr Adnan Al-Bursh? Who IIRC is one of those who was interned without trial, tortured, raped and murdered.

It's what they do.

When they had pretty much finished in Gaza, they moved on Hezbollah. Now that they have been obliged to call what is probably a temporary halt in Gaza, Hezbollah and Syria are out of the equation, they will turn their viciousness on the West Bank. It is what they do, they cannot stop themselves.

Was there not enough bloodshed for you?

Look at sky news hostage release video. It seems theres plenty of Hamas left they are probably hiding in the tunnel network . What's the result now. Most of Gaza is a heap of rubble it's ironic. Parts of los Angeles resemble Gaza houses destroyed by fire. Estates left to debris and rubble but the Americans can print dollars they can rebuild again

Whose going to pay to rebuild Gaza . Even right up to the ceasefire the IDF were killing civilians with bombs . After world war 2 European citys rebuilt most church's and schools were not damaged .

The news I read nyt latimes mainstream news huffpost sfgate there's very little criticism about Israel or genocide in American media if you look at American media Hollywood theres a large Jewish presence

Gaza s infrastructure is wrecked people will only survive with the help of daily trucks food and medical supplies there seems to be no long term plan for Gaza it hard to be optimistic of any fair long term solution for peace or a normal life for Palistinians which will not involve repression or for instance reporters or protestors being arrested or killed .

Couldn't believe what I heard on RTE Drivetime yesterday.

A guest on the show remarked how the Israeli hostages looks to be in great condition and went on to say that the Palestinian prisoners probably wouldn't be in the same condition.

Now she obviously hadnt a clue what she was talking about because one of the Israeli hostages was missing 2 fingers but unsurprisingly O Hara let her away with saying it.

Absolute scum.

Throughout this thread I've asked israels supporters to provide any justification for the settlements. Both the "legal" and illegal ones. I don't think I ever got a reply.

The act like Palestinians have an irrational hatred of Jews and avoid a reason that Palestinians have for hating the state of Israel.

Edit: Just saw this buried in the article. They released Israelis who were completly unrelated to the deal.

On Friday, Defense Minister Israel Katz announced that all seven Jewish Israelis held on allegations of settler violence under administrative detention orders would be freed, tying it to the release of Palestinian terror convicts as part of the hostage-ceasefire deal signed in Qatar last week.

“It is better for the families of Jewish settlers to be happy than the families of released terrorists,” he said in a statement.

On another thread, you have denied the genocide of the Jewish people by the Roman Empire. I wouldn't put it as equivalent to Holocaust denial, but it is symbolic of your prejudice that you deny it.

Gaza was almost unliveable before the war and was completely dependent on aid. Israel imposed a blockade from 2007 which destroyed Gaza's economy and caused extremely high unemployment rates. They weren't allowed import a lot of important commodities including construction materials. Israel were deemed an occupying power and controlled the utilities and energy sector which meant they were subjected to on average 7 hours of power cuts per day. Israel did enjoy it's petty little games.

But yes, rebuilding Gaza (if allowed) will be costly. The blockade could also remain.

we should do a meet and greet !! I would love to meet a few off this thread

The burden of proof has never fallen on Israel. They're still investigating the murder of Hind Rajab a year later so I wouldn't be expecting anything here. In any case they'll simply reclassify the hits as terrorists, regardless of their age.

The Hezbollah pager bombs were a terrorist attack, simple as. If it were carried out by lads with beards shouting Allahu Akbar it would have (rightly) been classified a terrorist attack but some on here won't spot the hypocrisy of that.

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/well-it-depends-explosive-pagers-attack-revisited/

This article presents a coherent argument with links and references to relevant extracts of law as to why the pager attacks weren't a war crime or a terrorist attack.

Of course they caveat their conclusion that it is based on information to date. But I am sure you recall that you have to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in any criminal situation and the bar is high to secure a conviction. Even if every person injured by a pager was a civilian, the court would have to prove that the intention of the Israelis (and they also have to prove it was the Israeli government) was to kill civilians or that they were intentionally careless in their targeting. The presumption is of innocence, so Israel don't have to prove that all of those killed and injured were Hezbollah affiliated.

There has been an awful lot of spin around this conflict. For example, we are told that two innocent children were killed in the pagers incident, but there has been no clarity on whether these were 5-year old innocents or 16-year old battle-hardened child soldiers illegally conscripted by Hamas in another alleged war crime of theirs.

'Israel has the right…..' but nobody else does

Nope, and you know better than that, A Dub in Glasgo. Look at all the countries in that region and around the world that live in peace with Israel.