Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Read OP for mod warnings before posting*

How is it daft for me to want tighter rules. We have differing opinions, doesn't mean mine are daft and yours are right or visa versa.

Another poster stated.

The idea of Irish citizenship was undermined.

I tried to find out what undermining the very idea of citizenship might mean.

You added yourself by quoting me but never seemed to answer my question about how or even what undermining the idea of Irish citizenship might mean.

I'm not really sure how you undermine an idea.

Anyway you had a rant that didn't answer my question but seemed to indicate that undermining the idea of Irish citizenship was bringing you personal shame.

So I asked the question. That is how we ended up with you crafting a strawman all for yourself.

But you have never answered either of my questions instead you created your own question. Then crafted a scenario to answer your question and here we are.

@_Quilombero I have quoted our entire convo chain related to this. And your series of events don't match the posts and timelines on boards.

Yes, your quotes prove what I said i.e. I explained my point quite well and you responded with a question about how Irish I feel, so I explained my point again to you with an example of something that can happen under the current rules.

If you don't understand how Irish citizenship can be undermined by dishing it out, after a short time, to people who don't have any prior connection to the country and have entered through a system that is being widely abused, then I'd suggest you have a think about it - I've explained it quite clearly.

Again, three years citizenship with no language requirement is wrong. If you disagree with this feel free to outline why rather than trying to derail the conversation.

The Irish Times publishing an article stating the bleeding obvious (that pouring unlimited numbers of human beings into a state in the throes of a housing crisis will have negative outcomes) whilst also publishing articles by other writers who have parrotted the notion that anything critical of this failed system is based in racism is bound to raise some eyebrows.

The notion that people can observe this blindingly obvious issue but shouldn't talk about it because "provide links or I'm not going to believe you", is a level of pigheaded pedantry that underlines the absolutely pathetic excuse we have for a discussion around these issues.

How is it possible to have an open, honest and frank discussion about this topic when there's a cadre of individuals seeking to distort other people's words and spend days at a time attempting to engender a frankly nasty atmosphere that leaves no space for anything other than pitched battles over the tiniest of preposterous details?

I've been around this site long enough to know that actual real far right or racist opinions don't get aired without censure, the majority of people expressing their frustrations around Irelands immigration issues aren't approaching the topic with any sort of xenophobic malice. There are obvious problems with how the immigration question is being answered by official Ireland and people can have strong opinions on that without being prejudiced in any way.

Currently Ireland is making every mistake that has been made around mass immigration in other nearby countries and we've guilted ourselves into a position where we're willing to accept absolutely anything because of the fear of ostracisation on the grounds of being perceived to be intolerant.

It's high time we got over this and took this bull by the horns and began working towards a solution that benefits the immigrants and the Irish, and in the case of the latter we're usually talking about the most vulnerable people in society who end up pitted against new arrivals in a battle for resources that is the genesis of any real far right movement, we'd understand this if we looked around us and observed how the same mistakes played out in other countries but the government refuses to do so.

In the end we can't solve this problem by perpetuating the tired old arguments about never dealing with the issues for fear of being perceived a certain way, it's time for level headed responsible people to take charge and keep the political fringes at bay because up to now they've been driving the conversation and that's the first thing that needs to change.

Mod Edit: Warned for uncivil posting

The notion that people can observe this blindingly obvious issue but shouldn't talk about it because "provide links or I'm not going to believe you", is a level of pigheaded pedantry that underlines the absolutely pathetic excuse we have for a discussion around these issues.

You have to be kidding me. A poster has claimed the Irish times. A newspaper and website has published content that calls any criticism of immigration as racist.

So if the Irish times published this it should be really easy to find proof of this claim. But asking for proof that something was published as proof that it was actually published is being pedantic!

Any other claim I should just take unsubstantiated from the internet?

You never said anything about different rules that I disagree with in that post .Saying that people can't be really Irish because they are not born here is what I made clear that I disagreed with .

People move to countries and become as part of a country in more ways than speaking the language or learning the dancing etc .

Saying otherwise may not be daft , fair enough that's imo , but it's very simplistic .

Fair play to Kitty. A true patriot. Legendary Irish woman. You know you're doing it right when you trigger the far right scum we unfortunately have in the country.

Mod Edit: Warned for trolling

Yes. One Micheal Martin seems to be against borders.

He was once quoted as saying Ireland should want nothing to do with "the backward looking idea of sovereignty".

How patriotic is that?

He also defended asylum seekers arriving without documentation. Saying with a straight face they might not be able to get documentation if they have to flee a dangerous situation quickly.

I can't imagine any other leader of a country making such statements. I really can't

She was absolutely spot on and is a credit to Ireland. The amount of admiration she has is almost unmatched. The epitome of a strong Irish woman who terrifies the far right bullies.

The boyfriend deserves all our sympathy but the comments he made were wrong in my view. He essentially made a political speech in parts.

“It just sickens me to the core that someone can come to this country, be fully supported in terms of social housing, social welfare, and free medical care for over 10 years… over 10 years… never hold down a legitimate job, and never once contribute to society in any way shape or form… can commit such a horrendous evil act of incomprehensible violence on such a beautiful, loving and talented person who in fact, worked for the state, educating the next generation and represented everything that is good about Irish society.”

If the murderer had been a local, owned a house, had a good job, and could show off a long list of contributions to society, what difference would that make?

Then there’s this:

“I feel like this country is no longer the country that Ashling and I grew up in and has officially lost its innocence when a crime of this magnitude can be perpetrated in broad daylight. This country needs to wake up, this time things have got to change, we have to once and for all start putting the safety of not only Irish people but everybody in this country who works hard, pays taxes, raises families and overall contributes to society first.”

Again, no mention of the actual issue which I think is male violence against women. Instead, it’s all about “the country losing its innocence” and “putting safety first” for people who “work hard” and “pay taxes.” What about everyone else? People on welfare or immigrants?

And don’t even get me started on the claim that today’s Ireland is somehow worse than the Ireland he grew up in. Violence against women has always been a problem here. A quick look at history will show you that. This idea that the country’s gone downhill is just nonsense.

I get that he’s grieving, and it’s a horrible thing to go through and my heart goes out to him. But just because someone’s been through something awful doesn’t make everything they say untouchable. What he’s saying here deserves to be called out. This kind of rhetoric isn’t helping anyone.

What’s even more disgusting is how the far right jumped on this appalling crime to push their own agenda. They didn’t care about the victim or the actual issue of male violence against women, they just saw an opportunity to weaponize it. It’s so transparent too. The focus isn’t on the horror of the crime or the need to address systemic violence against women, it’s all about turning this into an immigration debate. They’re more interested in dividing people and pointing fingers at immigrants than actually protecting anyone. It’s gross, and it’s insulting to the victim’s memory to use her death this way.

Honestly, it makes me furious. There’s no integrity in what they’re doing, and it just highlights how they’ll latch onto anything to push their hateful views. This wasn’t about justice or change for them; it was about scoring political points. Sickening.

Perhaps if the Irish Government posted statistics on migrants sex crimes notably on asylum seekers and former one would have a clearer picture.But that is racist and unfair in the woke world.

Honestly, this whole thing is just full of nonsense. Saying all immigrants are ungrateful or taking advantage of Ireland is such a lazy stereotype. Loads of people from other countries are working in essential jobs like healthcare, farming, and construction. Yeah, some might be on welfare, but that’s the system designed to support people who need help, no matter where they’re from. It’s not some sign of them being a drain on the country.

And seriously, bringing up Josef Puska as some kind of example of why immigrants are bad is completely unfair. One random, horrible act doesn’t represent an entire group of people, and it definitely doesn’t mean that all immigrants are violent or ungrateful. It’s just as stupid as saying all Irish people are bad because of one person’s actions. Plus, people have every right to challenge decisions in court if they think they’ve been treated unfairly. Immigrants aren't just here to take, they're people with their own stories and contributions, and that’s what should be focused on, not these tired, negative arguments.