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Seplos mason battery build [Should I get 2 x 5kWh or a 10kWh battery?]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 789 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    Getting a bit impatient now that I have the Seplos unit sitting in the house 😅 I ordered the Grade B accessory kit but NKON still have no ETA for the 314Ah cells arriving.

    I see they do have an ETA for 314Ah Grade A cells though, and as best I can tell from the pictures the studs on top are the same. Any reason why these wouldn't work?

    Grade B: https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/lifepo4/prismatisch/envision-hc-l315a-3-2v-315ah-1008wh.html

    Grade A: https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/lifepo4/prismatisch/eve-mb31-prismatic-314ah-lifepo4-3-2v-single-stud-grade-a.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Different busbars, which is why there is an "A" and a "B" kit.

    I know, because Fogstar gave me the "A" accessories kit by accident on my second battery. There are other differences making them incompatible.

    @SD_DRACULA might have cells for sale. They are the "B" Grade 305Ah cells. I bought 16 cells at a reasonable price from him in Dublin. Otherwise I would still probably be waiting on NKON. Still had the boxes and everything.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 789 ✭✭✭nimrod86


    Thanks, I'll send him a message and see if he still has some!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,901 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Was trying with getting a diesel gen late in the summer as we have the odd powercut here. But it's infrequent maybe 3 times a year at max so reconsidered and left it.

    The recent power cut has me now back to this but instead buying some batteries that would get more storage use.

    No solar yet but it's coming next few years.

    Ahead of that thinking of using night rate as presently charge far via zappi for that.

    High level presume need battery case, bus, batteries. So a seplos mason kit handiest with the fogstar pricing which seems reasonable.

    And then an invertor, is the Solis 5kwh hybrid a good option. Considering solar installation within next12 to 18 months.

    Or something else ?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Soils for battery only, may be an issue, Ive seen situations where it would only power up via PV, but that could be an older version.~

    May be as easy just go get the pv then you have everyhing right to export and such (NC6 etc)

    I do like the sunsynks though, there is a generator input that you can use to charge up your batteries from a generator in a power outage (and also a full changeover switch too)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,901 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Thinking more series 5 like

    https://www.solisinverters.com/ie/energy_storage_inverter5/S5-EH1P%283-6%29K-L_ie.html.

    Cant do PV yet as need entire roof membrane replaced the old under tile bitumen is falling apart. So there's roof work required tiles to come off, have to get that out of the way in spring.

    Is the sunsynks better due to its higher current handling and 5.5 over 5. Or any particular reason.

    Might note, not looking to use a generator at all so charge input may not be a requirement. Plan would be to trim down use to minimal during power outage. Few led light circuits. Heating a few times on. To extend battery power.

    Presently without power at all but have been using the V2L to run the heating then top up the freezer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    My solis works without the solar and with just the battery. While I do have solar, the inverter powered down at night until I got a battery, which keeps the inverter going. I know this, because I have had the system offline when it was dark and when I was updating the system, or added another battery etc, I turned the isolators back on, the inverter didn't power up. I waited a few minutes and forgot I hadn't flipped the battery breakers. Within seconds of doing this, the inverter came to life. I've witnessed this a few times now.

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    V2L technically is a "generator". Both inverters are good though.

    Good to know. we've had people on older ones where it was shutdown to be restarted at night, but couldnt get it back online until the pv game back in the morning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Guys, for those that have built there own batteries what if anything do you use to clean the battery terminals and bus bars.

    I've read a few different things can be used from alchol wipes to emery paper/wet and dry, sponges and baking soda?

    I've watched a few build video's but none of them show any cleaning so assuming its all done pre assembly.

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Nothing, They are clean enough. Would only think about cleaning if tarnished, but still dont think it makes any difference.

    Also when tightening, Even with a torque wrench dont be "swinging" on it, All they usually need is hand tight (without tool) and max 1/4 turn, there is no spring washer to compress, so they tighten fairly quickly. they are only m6. (10mm socket)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Thanks graememk, yeah I've asked Fogstar what torque should be used on the connections, busbar and BMS, I have the MB31 cells with two threaded holes and bolts, not a single stud with nut, but assume torque will be same 4-6nm.

    image.png

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Hi, ok started build have a couple of questions:

    Fogstar have included 3 different types of buzbars just wondering which would be the best to use, the ones with labels appear to be aluminium flexi the thinner unlabelled seem to copper plated with aluminium again flexi and then there are some aluminium non flexi as in the second photo joining the two rows.

    Also as the battery terminals are double tapped should I use both connections for the balancer wires and NTC wires or stick them all on the one connection?

    Thanks

    image.png image.png

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    They usually provide the one type, but 3 sizes. The short one for the connection from Cell 8 and 9. The longer ones for the bridging connections between cells 4 & 5 and 12 & 13 when there is a middle shelf. The rest for the other connections.

    It varies depending on the kit you get.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Ok, so all complete, worked first time…ish (balancer power was wrong), cells seem spot on, will see what happens when they start charging/discharging.

    Trying to get hold of the sparks to do the swap from WECO to Seplos, might get some cables made up and swap myself leaving the WECO's in place in case there are issues with the Seplos.

    So cables would need to be what 25mm sq 8mm lug to bare or do you put a ferrule on the bare end?

    It'll be connecting to the 125A breaker.

    image.png

    image.png image.png

    image.png

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭Jo Satan


    I emailed Fogstar tech support and they said
    "M10 ring terminals are needed on the battery end, not sure what the inverter takes, that you will need to check. 35mm2 or 50mm2 is fine."

    My inverter takes M8 lugs, where are you getting your cables made up?
    I can get off the shelf cables but they are M8 or M10 pairs.

    Do you need the breaker if the battery has a built in breaker?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Thanks, there's a crowd near Newry that make them up to what ever specs you want length, cable size 25mm, 35mm etc lugs m8, m10 or bare.

    The breaker is already in situ as original install was 2 x 5.3KwH WECO's so will remove existing cables in the breaker from battery and connect in the Seplos, this way any issues I can easily switch back, once satisfied will remove the WECO's (flog them) then tidy up install.

    Pink foam is to keep any dirt out until I put the panel on, want to leave it off for now so I check the connections/busbars etc for any heat spots once its charging/discharging.

    image.png

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    All 3 are 16s LFP, so you could get a bus bar (or a victron lynx powerin/ distributor if your feeling fancy) and connect them all to get you 25kWh

    But if you can get them sold it will pay for the seplos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Thanks guys, yeah was thinking about another Seplos for sure, didn't realise I could connect the WECO's and Seplos..hum maybe I give that a shot first.

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Yeah , It works, back to a water analogy, Batteries are tanks, They all have the same height, (voltage), but the volume (capacity) can be different.

    A bigger battery will take or give more current accordingly.

    Seplos is 15, weko are 5 and 5.
    The seplos will deliver 60% of the current, and the 2 wekos would be 20% each. Without any communication.
    the main thing communication between batteries are for is charge and discharge rates. Alarms can be sent to the inverter, but the BMS will always take steps to protect the battery anyway should the case arise. .

    Different cable lengths can change the [apparent] voltage of each battery slightly, but with the currents we're dealing with, its not going to be an issue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Ok, so I took a look under the covers of the WECO's, battery 1 has the four power cables, two to battery 2 and two to the breaker. (I assume) Batt 1

    image.png

    Battery two has the two power cables going to battery one.

    Batt 2

    image.png

    Questions, firstly could I just connect the Seplos to the spare terminals on battery 2, is there any risk having the largest capacity at the end/beginning of the paralleled batteries?

    Second if I was to temporarily power the two WECO's down, connect the CAN from the Seplos into the Solis, change battery type and charge/discharge the Seplos with the two WECO's connected but powered down, is this do-able, or could/would it damage the WECO's?

    Finally, if I was to run all three batteries together would I have an overall SOC available only I like to discharge any remaining energy down to the Overdischarge SOC before the EV window opens?

    Thanks

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭Jo Satan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Here you go.

    https://offgridkit.ie/

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 559 ✭✭✭The devils




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Guys, just looking for a bit of direction/advice on the above regarding connection of the Seplos to the existing WECO's whether its doable and how to set it up?

    Thanks

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Had intentions of replying before but forgot.

    Q1 : Yes you could just connect the seplos to the spare terminals of battery 2. Not ideal but will work. With the solis you'll not be pulling more than 100 amps anyway and that would be split over the 3 batteries.

    The busbars on the weco the terminals are common with each other so turning off the batteries should mean that they wont interact with the seplos. So yes you could connect the can to the seplos and run it that way.

    Or you dont connect the seplos communication, and use the weco one, the seplos will protect the battery if anything gets out of spec. after connecting the batteries, the voltage will equalise between the batteries, (ideally have them similarish voltage) but you would want to make sure everything fully charged (even force a charge at expensive rate!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    But I think it's probably wiser to sell the Weco batteries and with the money, it will easily pay for another Seplos kit and take out a lot of the downfalls. Plus you get extra storage for less cash.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Perfect, thanks for the reply graememk, a lot to consider.

    I was looking to connect it up initially to the WECO's with the WECO's switched off to get a couple of cycles on it hopefully to get a good capacity measurement on it.

    Regarding the SOC measurement if I run the WECO on the Solis and use the Solis to WECO CAN setting the WECO BMS will report the actual SOC of the WECO's only?

    If I set the Solis to user define and set the battery capacity as Seplos capacity + WECO capacity (514Ah)…….would this work and give me a usable-ish SOC?

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    User defined still use the soc of the CAN connected battery. But if configured correctly and given a good full charge the 2 SOC should track each other.

    Fairly confident on the zevabms measurement, Ive calibrated the Voltage and current on the JK too. So now im tweaking the capacity of it to track the Zeva SOC (currently set at 315 on 280ah cells!)

    image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 456 ✭✭mjatkey


    Thanks, 315 from a 280 cell thats good, did you capacity check them all?

    🌞 6.96kWp PV System. West Dublin🌞



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