Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Northern Ireland has an independent, low cost, insured, effective certification process which helps keep housing provision cost low.

All these qualities are missing from Ireland's certification process which has evolved under FFG governance over a century with close ties to land and developer lobbyists

The problem is hiding in plain sight

How many pyrite issues were discovered in Northern Ireland, having the epicentre in Donegal and incidents all the way down to Limerick

Japan has been in stagnation for almost 2 decades, and yet it is consistently ranked among the best places to live in the world.

Not sure properties being worth feck all is the main problem in Ireland.

I think there's a reasonable middle ground between houses being worth feck all and houses being beyond the reach of the average earner, the latter of which being where we are going.

Yes, but now we're going towards a future where one can get a job, but accommodation is impossible to find at a reasonable rate, if at all. I don't really know which is worse.

Falling birth rates are indeed a big problem, but I've never seen immigration as a solution to this. It would be better to try to encourage more native people to have children. However, I also think that the reasons behind falling birth rates go way beyond the realm of economics and into the arena of human psychology and behaviour. I say that as an unmarried and childless 38 year old!

Agreed, you could be absolutely right. My assumption is based on two things.

1. Glenveagh are an excellent builder. They will have delivered buckets of estates over the last 5 years. I’ve never seen/heard anything bad about their builds. What are the chances one of the very first affordable house estate is a shambles. It’s just statistically unlikely. I also highly doubt they decided to cut corners on this one. I’m sure the senior people involved have already factored in the need to gold plate to protect their reputation (it’s a near €bn company)…and no doubt priced it up accordingly.
2. The limited info provided to date is cagey, but the few snippets have indicated that this isn’t a major issue.

Property prices increased by 50k on average in Dublin last year… I mean, with immigration… Many coming in, earn a pittance, in **** jobs and the housing cost and availability of rental properties / rooms, is obscenely scarce and extremely costly. Then these low paid workers, the way the irish income tax system is structured, contribute virtually nothing, in direct taxes.

How many are in jobs in retail or delivery drivers (people can get off their ass and get their own food) … In retail, many of the jobs, can be done away with, for example, self service checkouts, now in many of the aldi and lidls… These people could be doing something far more productive. It is just an example…

Also many of the young irish leaving, would be living at home and working. When they leave, I would say its rare, that the vacant rooms are then let out, unless financial pressure forces the parent to do so…

Ultimately that's a pretty selfish way of looking at the world.

You're basically saying that we should suppress and keep people in Third World conditions so they don't consume as much as us - we can then continue on with our First World lifestyles at their expense.

Also many of the young irish leaving, would be living at home and working. When they leave, I would say its rare, that the vacant rooms are then let out, unless financial pressure forces the parent to do so…

That's an interesting point. As the locals leave and are replaced, the housing requirement goes up beyond merely what one would expect due to net population rise.

Jobs in retail will always exist and thats a good thing.

I wouldnt like to see a derelict Grafton St, because we cant hire any staff to work in the shops.

If enough irish people were willing to work in retail, we wouldnt need to bring in as many people from overseas to fill those roles.

There are still plenty of people not working that were born here or people working part time so they can keep their social welfare benefits, not criticising them for that by the way, but its an odd system when you are only allowed to work part time, or lose access to your social welfare subsidies if you work full time.

If more part time employees worked full time and more people on the dole found employment, there would be a reduction in open vacancies and a natural reduction in immigration, as there wouldnt be as many jobs for people to move here for.

This would lead to an easing of both housing costs and housing demand.

Open debate would have been nice about ten or twelve years ago. Up until very recently, even mentioning immigration got someone compared to the mid-century Austrian Painter.

Some good ideas, but not sure what they have to do with people spending in Kildare Village?

This is true… Look, in the likes of Australia , the US, they only take you in, if you are going to be an asset to society. There are tens of thousands here minimum, on the dole or getting disability allowance (that are capable of working), there is a serious amount of labour, that is already housed. The government wont touch that with a barge pole here, there solutions are pretty simply, but the irish government wont do anything, that would ruffle feathers.

Also I believe completions last year, were the same as the year before in an "emergency" , totally pathetic and an absolute failure. As long as supply is massively constrained and demand massively outstrips supply, what way do people expect prices to go?

I wasnt talking about retail, as in all retail jobs are a waste, they arent, obviously. But the supermarkets, must have tens of thousands of staff, that are not really needed… In the states, for years, some of their smaller spar like supermarkets, have no cashiers, camera grabs a scan of you on entry, can tell what you have purchased and just charges the card that you have on file… But yeah honestly, simple solution, maybe they shouldnt have made welfare life, so attractive, all their own doing…

That may once have been how the USA was, but it most certainly is not the case today. I think that Australia is changing too.