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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭Guffy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Everyone here wants Russians to turn around and go home

    That’s how simple it is for Russia to stop this war which they have started and for Putin to stop murdering his young men

    If you oppose this ^ then you are the war monger



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Dear God! It's as if one is talking to a wall. I posted on this a week ago, but talking to a Putain apologist -or sorry, one of the , eh '''concerned''-is engaging in a dialogue of the deaf. Let me repeat "Millions of the population are far away from their electoral areas, refugees in the west of the country. Millions are refugees abroad. A fifth of the country is occupied. Hundreds of thousands are in the armed forces.The administration and manpower required to overcome those chaotic conditions would challenge the capabilities of a much larger and wealthier state even in peacetime. Chaos and disruption and the destruction of hundreds of public buildings has made the tranquility required for the voting and subsequent vote counting next to impossible, not to imagine that it would require the diversions of many thousands of personnel from essential tasks: firefighting, the armed forces, medical facilities, rescue operations. And you expect that the remaining population would be content to queue up all day in voting centres waiting for a Ruzzian missile to fall on their heads…something the Ruzzian vermin would be happy to take advantage of, to kill more Ukrainians. ….How about an election in Libya or, say, Sudan?'' And that's in addition to the obstacle to holding elections pointed out by Podge_irl.

    Time to put this ''Why won't Zelenski hold an election…it's not fair''boo hoo'' bullsh1t to bed-permanently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,040 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    IMG_1172.png

    Common knowledge but I think of it when I hear of attempts on Zelenskyy life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Have pity, poor guy pulled the short straw this week after @Sand was it had the “Russia is a stronk democracy” drumbeat last week

    IMG_5616.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,212 ✭✭✭yagan


    Trump threatening to annex Greenland and the Panama canal shows his thinking is very much in harmony with Putin's Make Russia Great Again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,834 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Yes, I knew something like that was also the case, but as I wasn't fully versed in that Ukranian law, I didn't mention it, unlike some of the comrades here that claim that Zelensky is an illegitimate president!! Despite their boss being on the throne for a quarter of a century…

    It'll be bot/troll/concernik 3.476 this week while the others take a break (or post on German/Spanish/French Boards)…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Honestly, the assassination attempts were widely reported at the time and there is articles describing them everywhere, however, the issue is that you even think this didn't happen numerous times makes you an unreliable observer, it's such a fundamental item that is easy to prove you wrong on (and even the classic spin away whataboutery to Libya).

    Have you really based your opinion around this? It's like believing the earth is flat and then giving an opinion on astrophysics.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-assassination-ukraine-putin-russia-b2541002.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭engineerws


    I'm a person here. I understand the Russians have security concerns. I'm pretty sure the Russians are not going to leave.

    I want to go to the moon but just because I want it doesn't mean it will happen. One might also say it is as simple as for Ukraine to offer a complete and unconditional surrender to Russia. I do not see how such statements are in any way connected to reality

    In an ideal scenario, the Russians would leave and surrender Crimea too and everyone would live happily ever after.

    As it stands, there are two countries, both deemed very corrupt by transparency international, fighting. I would like to see lasting security agreements in place that would lessen the risk of nuclear war and end the killing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭engineerws


    I wonder do you read the articles?

    The SBU said they had arrested two colonels in the State Guard of Ukraine who had reportedly been recruited before Vladimir Putin’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia’s security services, the FSB, to kill Mr Zelensky.

    The secret police of a country slightly less corrupt than Russia but formerly known as the most corrupt country in Europe say X.

    Russia has non nuclear MOABs like the USA.

    If they genuinely had killing zelenski as a goal, they could wipe out the entire city of Kyiv like the Israeli's funded by the USA are doing in Gaza.

    Here's a question.

    Do you think the USA providing Israel with 70 cent in every dollar to commit real genocide, not the removing orphans from the battlefield kind like in Ukraine, in Gaza is a good thing? If not, why do you think the intentions of the USA in Ukraine are good?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,834 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    @engineerws Going back to your earlier claim;

    Zelrnskys term of office has ended but he will not hold an election

    Can you now agree/acknowledge that an election cannot currently be held in Ukraine, as per Ukranian law

    Would you mind just acknowledging this fact please?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Mannesmann


    Wasn't there an agreement in place already with Ukraine? One that the Russians have broken by their invasion. One that returned nuclear weapons to Russian for peace and security.

    It really is impossible to trust that Putin would keep any future agreements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,915 ✭✭✭Rawr


    As simple as for Ukraine to offer a complete and uncondtional surrender to Russia?

    As we've seen what happens when the Russians gain control of places (Bucha of course comes to mind) that the only simple thing about a surrender to the Russians is how singularly brutal they would be to the Ukrainian people.

    Hell of a job "both sides"ing this while letting slip your possible preferred outcome.

    There is no equivilency here, Ukraine may have it's flaws but it is in a fight for it's very survival because it daned to choose to be a democracy while the Russians can't fathom their earlier vassals rejecting their special brand of governance. Security "Agreements" with the current Russian Federation are worthless, especially considering that this War they had started is in violation of an existing security treaty between Russia and Ukraine.

    The Russians must be defeated by force. As monsterious as that is, it is the only way to make certain that they lose the ability to continue to menace other nations, and in particular Ukraine. Russia would have to fundamentally change to become an actor where a peace treaty is possible. I do hope that will happen one day, for the sake of the Russians themselves at the very least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,078 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "Both deemed very corrupt by transparency international."

    You have posted this out of date information before on the thread.

    Here you are earlier on the thread citing 2015 figures! Poster Wibbs provided you with the latest figures.
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268081/#Comment_122268081

    Transparency International ranks from 2023:

    Ukraine is ranked 104 with a score of 36.

    Russia is ranked 141 with a score of 26.

    https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023

    You then acknowledged: "neither country scores high."

    Yet here you go again on the thread repeating the same false claim: "both deemed very corrupt by transparency international."

    So what is your source for that claim?

    Because as it stands, even though you are aware of the latest figures, it appears you are continuing to deliberately spread information you know to be out of date, in an attempt to deceive readers and paint Ukraine in a bad light.

    This is the graph from Transparency International of Ukraine's rankings:

    Transparency International Ukraine 2023.png

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭strathspey


    ....but as long as orcs are getting killed in large numbers, that's OK isn't it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,543 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    That's just one of numerous articles describing the numerous assassination attempts. As said, you're either trying to ignore reality or just straight up lying about it, either way, it utterly undermines every other point you try and make on russia.

    Whatabouting to the USA further weakens any points you're trying to make.

    (if they did target Kiev with a MOAB type weapon, where I'd be doubting they had that capability anyway due to their lack of air superiority, the level of civilian deaths would cause NATO and/or other countries to intervene directly and end the war very quickly, but this is you trying to spin away to something else after being caught again, what type of mind thinks of a MOAB for an assassination)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    I understand the Russians have security concerns.

    Do you? Great, because I don't. Perhaps you could explain to me in exactly what way Russia - permanent member of the UN security council, nuclear armed, biggest country in the world, fielding the Second Greatest Army (*subject to re-verification) - is vulnerable? What precisely are these "security concerns" that are so enormous they can't protect themselves and need third-party guarantees?

    And any chance you can answer without using the phrase "NATO expansion" ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,040 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    wasn’t 1 of the main objectives in the first days of the war to decapitate the government. But they couldn’t get to Kyiv.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,524 ✭✭✭wassie


    I was shocked as my neighbor described his middle aged academic friend 

    Interesting how you always seem to know some one with an anecdote to support your unconscious bias.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,524 ✭✭✭wassie


    Heres a question:

    Do you think Russia is justified with its initial & ongoing invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine?

    A simple yes or no will suffice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭junkyarddog




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,127 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    So I read that article twice, and it doesn't exactly make any valid legal arguments. You know, things like "Subsection 12 of section 15 of this treaty says…" It's an opinion piece on ethical values.

    That's fair as far as it goes. The ethics of conscription are still being debated to this day. I've linked here in the past to articles in philosophical journals on the matter. However, that's not what this article is talking about. It seems to accept the right of the nation to conscript, instead it's complaining about how the nation affects those it has not yet conscripted.

    I think this misses two points. Firstly, the point that the nation can control the lives of the people in time of war. They're a national resource, be they in uniform or not. We can go into the discussions of 'total national defense' such as practiced by some European countries (particularly Nordic), but for this, we'll just keep to the people. Secondly, that because they haven't been mobilized yet does not mean that the nation should allow the depletion of its resources for availability in the future.

    My thesis was on the mobilization of the US Army for WW2. There were two decisions made then of some relevance here. The first was that the US prohibited people volunteering for military service. After 1942, with a couple of exceptions for women, 17-year-olds and specialists 38 and older, the only way to get into the military was to be drafted. By default, it means they have to have an accessible population to draft from. The second was that there was no point in drafting people before they had the trainers to train them, the equipment to give them, and the ships to transport them. It was an expense on the treasury, and also it was a detriment to the economy which the US needed to keep going in order to be able to afford (and support) the war. As a result, it would not be unheard of for a soldier to get drafted late in the war and serve on equipment he had built in a factory a few months earlier.

    All three factors: The economy, the acquisition of equipment, and the personnel are to be considered and it's a balance the wartime government needs to strike. If a country is to prosecute a war, it needs to have active control over multiple factors of the country, not only the part in uniform at the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,172 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    An anti-oligarch law, you say? No wonder the Muskovite hates him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    2 ridiculous claims in 1 day. First that Ukraine could hold elections and second that Russia could level Kyiv like Gaza or more relevant I'd say like Vovchansk or Toretsk.

    If Russian fighter jets tired lobbing conventional bombs onto Kyiv like the Israelis do in Gaza they'd have no air force left. It's not on the zero line and it's protected by patriot's and other top class systems.

    Post edited by RoyalCelt on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭Field east


    the level of corruption - where has it come from - take your pick from the following :- Jupiter ; Mars; Butan; Ireland ; Latvia; Outer Mongolia; Luxembourg, Belgium; Serbia; Japan; USSR, America; Brazil or Nepal. If the practice did not originate from any of these then PLEASE TELL US where did the practice come from or is the practice UNIQUE to Ukraine. ?
    And ,by the way, do you know if the UKr government is doing anything about it to stamp it out and if so is it a significant planc of it’s Programme for Government?

    And ALSO, BY, BY, BY the way, there is a long established practice in Russia -‘- not called corruption’-of something similar in Russia and which is a key element of how the country operates - the higher up the ladder you are in Russia the more you can ‘charge’ for your ‘services/information/goods /protection provided.
    you might inform us Boardies what attempts the Russian aka Russian government is making to stamp it out on the basis that the practice is not OFFICIAL government policy there

    Am keenly looking forward to your response



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,040 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I think its fairly well established that Zelensky is not a target for the Russians. He is a poor leader who is more concerned with media events than military realities. It wouldn't make sense to remove him in case his replacement was competent and capable.

    The former israeli PM, Naftali Bennett, confirmed as much in an interview back in Feb 2023. Back in early March 2022, he tried to contact both Zelensky and Putin to try mediate an end to the fighting. He found Zelensky was hiding in a bunker, convinced Putin was out to kill him. He then went to speak to Putin:

    I knew Zelensky was under threat, in a bunker… I said to [Putin], ‘Do you intend to kill Zelensky?’ He said, ‘I won’t kill Zelensky,’” Bennett recalled in the interview, which was published on his own YouTube channel.

    “I need to understand. Are you giving me your word that you won’t kill Zelensky?” Bennett said he asked Putin.

    Bennett said the Russian president repeated: “I won’t kill Zelensky.”

    Bennett said he called the Ukrainian president immediately after the three-hour encounter with Putin, and told him, “I’ve just come out of a meeting — [Putin] is not going to kill you.

    “[Zelensky] asked me, ‘Are you sure?’ I said 100 percent. [Putin’s] not going to kill you.”

    Bennett recalled: “Two hours later, Zelensky went to his office, and did a selfie in the office, [in which the Ukrainian president said,] ‘I’m not afraid.’”

    And there was that incident when the Russians took out a facility in Odessa which contained the teams directing the naval drones in the Black Sea. Zelensky and some EU official visited the facility to hand out medals (possibly how the Russians confirmed the target), all the while being observed by Russian drones. They waited until he and the EU officials had handed out the medals, got back in the vehicles and left before they hit the facility/team with missile strikes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,834 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Russian Orthodox Christmas over then…?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Will the West at any point give Ukraine the ability to stop Russia dropping massive glide bombs on the frontline? We're approaching year 3 here, getting a bit tiresome at this stage.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    We all feel down seeing constant slow Russian gains for over a year now but sometimes you need to zoom out for perspective.

    I hope in 2025 the gains by Russia are reduced. At the current rate they'll implode. 2025 Russia badly need the snail pace to gain momentum and snowball. They're already using to many civilian vehicles to attack imagine in another year.



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