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Tiling Options

  • 30-12-2024 02:00PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39


    We had someone tile our hall and kitchen. Tiles are 1200 * 600. Mid way through the tiling the hall he told me it would need a join at the door as there was no way to slide the tile in otherwise. (I believe he should have measured first from the front door). He cut and joined as per the pictures. The tile is now hollow underneath (as are a few others) and they are coming back and to replace them. Given the door frame, is there any better looking way to lay this tile in the hall without the joins. E.g. remove the door frame put the tile in, therefore no need for join?

    IMG_20241230_125041__01.jpg IMG_20241230_125050__01.jpg


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭20/20


    Remove the architrave and skirting plus take down door. No need to touch the frame. Replace them after new tile is set. If tilers are good and getting proper tiling rates they should be able to cut and stick that tile and only have to remove the door. With such large tiles I dont understand why it wasnt planned out before anything was stuck.

    The two pieces look very bad especially if thats your hall entering the kitchen. If its inside a utility room or downstairs toilet maybe not so bad.

    Do you owe the tilers money ? ( have you paid in full ) because I dont think they would come back for that tile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    Thanks for the reply. That's what I thought. I was out at work and when I came back it was like this. They are getting Dublin rates with a tonne of big 5 star reviews online 100+ in South Dublin. I have paid fully. 65 sqm was €2.4k. They are coming back as I will ruin there reviews due to a number of other hollow tiles (7 in total) they have to replace. I suspect I'm on a long journey with issues

    The grout is gone at the join to the front and back door also. Should they have sealed this better? Also the tile cut at the back door is badly chipped that faces the metal.

    IMG_20241230_143734.jpg IMG_20241230_143807.jpg

    They also left a tile about 4mm short of the skirting board, transition bar broke off after a few days etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    Test......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Some of those finishes are like a DIY job. Certainly not 2.4k

    Time is contagious, everyone is getting old.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭20/20


    Could you put up the other photos again please, but not so close up. Take pics from a distance and I will zoom in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    Setting out is the most important aspect with tiling, on the pictures you've posted it's possibly poor planning.

    However sometimes even the best setting out will still leave awkward spots. It's not an acceptable finish on that tile but not the worst effort I've ever seen. It needs doing again.

    The other issues are easily sorted. Silicone where the tile meets the front and back door for example to allow for movement. Grout will always crack in these areas.

    Whats the job like overall? To me it looks like a cock up at the door threshold and a rushed finish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    Find below. Darker one showing he was short of the skirting board. In storage under the stairs. I'm no tiler, but surely that's poor.

    IMG-20241230-WA0009.jpg IMG-20241230-WA0005(1).jpg IMG-20241230-WA0006.jpg IMG-20241230-WA0007.jpg IMG-20241230-WA0010.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    Biggest issue has been the hollow tiles. They came out to replace one already, which cracked (cracked at corner right across the tile like below). Said they will do the others in the new year. In total we have found 7 tiles that are hollow. These are the biggest concern which has been my focus with them. Will get them to redo the tile in the hall properly. They also messed up a transition bar which came off. (Below) Also wanted our grout lines closer to 2mm, it's all about 4mm-5mm maybe for the best with larger tiles. Basically the job is "ok to poor". For one of dublins highest online rated tilers.

    IMG-20241130-WA0001.jpg IMG_20241128_220457.jpg
    Post edited by derry1993 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    Did they by any chance use a leveling system? (spacers with wedges) they are notorious for lifting tiles off the bed of adhesive and leaving hollow spots. I definitely wouldn't be happy with the finish you've been left with.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    They used something like the below. Asked me to get them from the tile shop (Which I paid for). Thanks, as I'm trying to understand how bad these guys have been as I will have quite a bit of back and forth in the new year. Also had to help them out with the washing machine and dryer and then carry and put them back in myself, they took every door off downstairs and never put it back on. All skirting was taken off and I understand it's standard that tilers don't put back on. But it's the finish that is basically a mess. An independent tiler told me any tile that is hollow will break, therefore they should come up.

    Screenshot_20241230-185842.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    He’s right any tile with a space will break.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    Thanks,

    Thanks, my question is how big. Did the golf ball bouncing test. Some are obvious. But if you have a tile with 2-4 inch circumference hollow, should it come up. Some are basically the entire centre of a 1200*600 which is obvious that they need to replace. Do I get them to replace anything with a hollow. Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    Large format tile should be getting 90%+ coverage, so it's important to back butter them etc. The issue with the leveling spacers, (which are a good product if used correctly) is that to level the tile they will generally pull one upwards, when this happens that tile should be lifted and more adhesive applied underneath.

    It's hard for me to explain in text, but lots of good videos on YouTube demonstrating.

    Yeah if it has hollows the tile isn't set correctly and is in danger of cracking if anything drops on the etc, you hardly have pics of the floor pre tiling? I'd be interested to know what prep they done.

    Like I said its not the worst job I've seen on the face of it, but voids under the tile is not what you'd expect from a pro. The small finish issues, to me it sounds like lads trying to get out of a job today instead of coming back tomorrow. Not the way it should be left but very easily sorted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    Thanks, it's a new build. Floors below. Developer had floors level and snagger was happy. Developer had already layed tiles of similar size in downstairs bathroom with 2mm grout line and are perfect (tilers I should have hired) The tilers I hired (bad ones) put down a primer before laying tiles, nothing else. It appears my tiler sub contracts out, I was unaware of this, the guy tiling it later told me he was getting 1k, and I paid 2.4k. Totally agree and had the feel he was rushing at the end. Do I request any tile with even partial hollow be lifted?

    Screenshot_20241230-203106.jpg Screenshot_20241230-203050.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭20/20


    I agree the finishing is not great but it looks ok overall. The leveling clips are not notorious for problems but iam curious how they ended up with 5mm spaces because the clips only do a 1.5 mm space maybe 2mm at most. That would be printed on the bag. The tilers should have provided these as part of their tools. Doors and skirtings should be replaced by the tiler if he removed them. Or he should have pointed this out when pricing the job. Looking again at the tile with two pieces around door, this most definitely has to be replaced. Any half decent tiler could do that, in a year or so when the grout is darker it will stand out way to much. The minor gap at the back patio door and under skirting can be filled with grout. When the gaps are grouted and skirtings painted all should look perfect.

    Now your main problem the hollow sound under tiles. This most definitely needs to be rectified, and is caused by maybe no adhesive under that part of the tile or the adhesive not making contact with the tile or ground below. This is why a tiler should spread adhesive on the tile and the ground to help ensure a decent contact between tile and ground. I would suggest using a coin and tapping each tile all over. This will help get a better idea where the hollow voids are, then use a pencil to draw a line where the hollow and solid sounds start plus finish. Do the full floor area and take some photos. When you stand back and see how many circles you have drawn around the voids you may need legal advise.

    I presume you bought the tiles adhesive and grout and the tilers were labour only. Considering each tile is nearly 1 Sq yard and you have seven maybe nine tiles to replace , who is going to pay for this ? plus adhesive grout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    "The leveling clips are not notorious for problems"

    Like I said a good product when used right. Lads seem to think they can level any difference in tile by just squeezing hard. They can't and end up popping the lower tile up from the adhesive bed and leave a void under the tile. This is very common in my experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭20/20


    Disagreeing with me over the leveling clips is no good to the OP, Dont know how often you experimented with them, but they are a good and handy leveling system. OP I didnt see your before post but a few inches hollow ( maybe 3 or 4 Sq inch is fine on large format tiles). Do as I say and tap each tile with a coin to find the voids. Not sure what a golf ball you mentioned is going to prove.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    For the third time I've acknowledged they are a good system, I'm tiling since I was 17 when I first started serving my time, I'm nearly 40 now, so I've "experimented" with them quite a bit.

    The reason I'm talking about them is I'd wager they are the reason the OP's tile cracked across the corner like it did. The wedges were used to try and level too large of a difference in the height of the tile, which may help the OP when talking to the tiler.

    The op' s golf ball method will find hollow tiles.

    A void of 3 to 4 square inches??? Ask the tile manufacturer the next time you're experimenting with tiling of its acceptable under a large format tile and see what they say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭20/20


    I was trying to put the OP mind at ease when he asked was a 2-4 inch circumference hollow acceptable, On a large format tile I think its not worth worrying about. Large format tile should be getting 90%+ coverage is what you said above. I am well aware adhesive manufactures will say no voids. As you are also a tiler you must appreciate the time involved in removing a large tile and the risks of breaking other good tiles, not to mention the dirt and dust raised.

    The OP says he paid €2400 for 65 Sq m of tiling which I feel is not costly. On the lower scale of pricing but still not cheap. The tiler who did the work got €1000 which works out at €15 per Sq meter. When have you last charged €15 for tiling ?? and what do you think is the likelihood of the original tiler doing the repairs.



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  • Administrators Posts: 55,020 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Setting out is the most important aspect with tiling, on the pictures you've posted it's possibly poor planning.

    Poor planning but I think not the best choice of tile for the space.

    Those tiles are too big for that hallway which is leading to the issue around the door and is also forcing a very narrow cut tile down one side of the kitchen by the look of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    I agree, I wouldn't have picked the tile. I know even with the best setting out you can still land on a problem but coming through that door with that size tile would have been one of the first areas I would have looked at.

    The door frame lands almost right in the centre of the tile.

    As to the other poster if the 4/5 square inch void isn't something he'd worry about, OK but if that void is towards the edge and corners of tiles thats a massive issue. And in my opinion it's down to incorrectly using tile leveling clips.

    I personally wouldn't have left them like that but if I did I'd put it right. It's not the op's problem her tiler shafted a subbie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Meanman


    A slightly different question> I am starting tiling early in the new year (home retrofit). Is there different quality of tiles. Lately someone said to me don't touch RPT tiles. How will I know different quality of tiles. TIA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭20/20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Meanman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    Tiles are graded in terms of toughness. No issue with right price tiles imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Meanman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    Tiles are graded also in terms of quality/uniformity. I forget the gradings now but they're marked on the boxes so lower grade tiles might need larger spacing/grout lines to allow for irregularities and may be more difficult to avoid lippage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 derry1993


    Thanks everyone. The same tile has cracked in the same place again in the same place post it replaced at the door frame. (Per below) There are also another 3 tiles which have cracked at similar places (hairline crack running from th corner of the cut). I now also count 8+ tiles which have hollow sounds in them. What could be causing this? Also the developers existing tiles in the downstairs bathroom are all fine, they are 1200 * 600 and also 9mm deep tiles, I have noticed that they have more adhesive below them, therefore are sitting higher than my tiles in the hall. At this point I wished I had if put down laminate!

    IMG_20250129_071242.jpg IMG_20241125_192731.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Hobby farmer


    Again first guess is not enough adhesive. It's also possible if there was a crack from movement in the subfloor, it can translate up through tile. That's why sometimes on floors I use decoupling mats.



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