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Help Please: New Windows Installed on Old Sealant – Seeking Industry Advice

  • 01-01-2025 07:41PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47


    Hi Folks,

    I recently had new A rated double glazed (acoustic) windows installed (replacing 20 yr old windows).

    I had hoped for better heat retention and noise reduction, but nothing major noticed at all ☹

    On inspection, I found that the installers left the old silicone sealant in place at the bottom of both windows, simply adding new sealant. I’m concerned about the impact this may have on performance and durability. What’s the best resolution I can realistically expect from the installer / windows company?

    Any advice from anyone who experienced this before, or industry professionals would be greatly appreciated! Thanks



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,023 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Hi there! Tell us more about the sealant? Can you upload a photo of it?

    Generally it's recommended that all sealant be removed, but sometimes it's here-nor-there in terms of how effective the windows are.

    How old were the original windows and what specification were the new ones? Did you look into the thermal performance of the new versus old. This would be a U-value telling you the difference between the old and new in terms of the heatloss at a given cold temperature.

    'Acoustic' is meaningless and largely just describes that the glass is thicker or the gap between that glass is wider, but the difference in thermal performance between an 'acoustic' and a standard double-glased window is minimal and only a triple-glased window would offer better performance overall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 RedPete


    Thanks for your response, the windows are around 20 years old (but did not check their U value). New windows are 1.1 U value, 38 Rw and A rated (Glass 6.8mm/6mm). Image attached re old (white) v new (grey) sealant.

    My main concerns are (i) the company recommended acoustic given we are on a main road but there has been no sound improvement and (ii) the old sealant hasn't been fully removed. Appreciate any recommendations and any thoughts on what the best outcome would be? thanks

    Window Sill Image.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,023 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Triple glazing is generally recommended for it's better acoustic performance due to the three layers of glass within, rather then the two in standard glazing. It's also thermally more performant, so that would have been the way forward for both requirements, but perhaps triple-glazing was ruled out by the budget?

    In regards to the sealant, it's hard to know what's going on there, but in my opinion it may have been cut-back as much as possible and left as it was due to the fact that any further removal off the cill was likely to damage the paint-work, so it might be somewhat acceptable in the way it was sealed, and a fresh coat of paint would clean-up the edge… but as I mentioned - the general guidance is that all of the residue be removed, but that's subject to the finished surface, etc.

    A u-value of 1.1 w/m2k is actually very low for double-glazing, it typically gets down to around 1.2 u for double (with Argon and a low-E glass) and around 0.7 for triple, so that indicates that the glass is probably 24 to 28mm wide. You can check the quality of the units by looking at the manufacturer's stamp in one of the corners, take a photo of that?

    https://www.bromyardglass.co.uk/u---values



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 RedPete


    Thanks for getting back to me.

    The salesperson from the company that we bought the windows from recommended their acoustic (laminated) glazing (A rated) versus the triple glazing option (A++) – both were offered at the same price although they highlighted that their acoustic glazing is usually dearer.

    We were swayed by the guidance at the time that the acoustic glazing would help dampen the noise from the traffic outside.

    I've attached a picture of the stamp on the window for reference. Thanks again

    Window Stamp.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,023 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    That's Diamond glass (Irish made) and the 'toughened' refers to the EN12150-1 standard for residential glazing. It's good quality but standard glass commonly used in both double and triple glazed units. I have the same glass here in mine and they weren't sold as 'acoustic' units at the time. So I don't think that this new window is any different to any other unit except for the fact that they are advertising it to be 'acoustic'.

    Part of an acoustic installation would require that the frames are installed with a full packing of foam between the frame and lintel/reveal/cill. That's a significant path for noise to travel and refits of windows tend to get that detail wrong as the frames are fitted into the existing opening and never have the gaps around them packed fully.

    Frankly, I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place as it's probably fair for the installers to say that they installed a better window than the originals both thermally and acoustically, but without having the noise attenuation detail and the W/m2k U value to compare, you don't have much to use as leverage. They might be able to improve the finish cosmetically, but that's not going to improve the acoustic experience, I think that can only be improved by packing the gaps fully (not possible without tearing out the reveals) and fitting triple-glazing…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 RedPete


    Thanks for all your help with this - I think there isn't a whole pile I can do at this stage.

    I presume I couldn't swap the glazing out for triple glazing at some point in the future without changing the frame also?

    And sorry, just one final question - the brickwork above the window is partially exposed. Could this be contributing to the issue and what would you recommend? Thanks!

    Top_Window.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,023 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    That's an unusual finish alright, it looks like the window lintel isn't complete and the external course of blocks are only half sitting on the lintel/beam. All of that should have been rendered over by whoever did the vertical wall rendering… It's a problem in terms of the fact that there is a gap for sure, but as to whether it's a structural issue or not isn't easy to say. If that's a steel beam then it would indictate that it's a cold bridge, so having the internal area around the window insulated with insulated plasterboard would improve matters and remove some of the source of cold from above the window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 RedPete


    I appreciate all the help and advice. Thanks again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    My main concerns are (i) the company recommended acoustic given we are on a main road but there has been no sound improvement

    Perhaps the cause of the outdoor road noise coming through to the inside has little to do with the windows but rather other general structural air tightness issues which you are not aware of?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 RedPete


    That's a fair point - we've had some underfloor insulation and soundproofing material under our floor, the fireplace in the room has been blocked up and we've also put some acoustic material in the vent so our options are limited I think - also something I'd expect the company to consider when making recommendations :/



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