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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Why were countries so quick to join NATO? Easy - in the 1990s it was seen as the winning team. Everyone wants to be on the winning team. Even Russia asked to join as a left field way to defuse the tension of NATO expansion, but unlike Ukraine that prospect was shut down with no discussion. I guess the open door policy excludes Russia.

    Nope. More Kremlin revisionism and amnesia. Ever hear of the NATO Partnership for Peace? Kicked off in the mid 90's and Russia was invited in and joined and participated. Which was fine until Russia's sphere of influence notions kicked off, in among others, Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine. Ten years before Maidan too(which was far more about joining the EU).

    In the 1940s when the UK was sabre rattling over the treaty ports, we didn't rush to seek an alliance with the enemies of the UK. Because that would have been dumb.

    We didn't need to attract any enemies of Britain, we had friendly not yet in the war America and outside of the logistics and value involved a major consideration for the UK was how invading neutral Ireland would have played out in Washington and affect US support. By the time the US joined the war the ports were of far lower value and our "neutrality" was heavily in favour of the Allies.

    Ireland instead followed a policy of neutrality which protected our sovereignty and independence far better than a military alliance with foreign powers who might use us to attack the UK, but couldn't defend us from the UK.

    Our independence from Britain was helped by both Germany and America. German and Irish Americans were allies in this and a general anti British sentiment during WW1.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I suppose it would depend on where you are too. In the ME I'm quite sure many would see NATO as an offensive force. Mostly by conflating NATO with the US. In Europe, particularly among ex Soviet states it would be seen as defensive for obvious reasons. For Russia, who were part of the wider NATO alliance, it was good to be in it, right until it got in the way of their "interests".

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    There’s a 2025 predictions thread here

    my stab at Russia related predictions

    Russia gains a few hundred square kilometres in Donbass but loses a few thousand square kilometres elsewhere along line”

    Putin will die but no one notices as his doubles are paraded around by a group of KGB and mafia bosses who try to figure out how to extricate themselves from his mess”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭macraignil


    I'm not going to say I'm optimistic for Ukraine this year but my own guesses as to what will pan out for 2025 are as follows and I think there is a distinct possibility that putin may have no choice but to give up on his adventure in Ukraine as his economy will no longer be propped up sufficiently by his "friends":

    Trump will play more golf and make newsworthy social media posts than do anything about Ukraine.

    putin's terrorists will continue to get killed and wounded in huge numbers while they try to occupy parts of Ukraine.

    The armed forces of Ukraine will surprise putin with another attack where his forces don't expect it.

    putin's empire's economy will continue to wilt and suffer from frequent careless smoking incidents.

    Ukraine's growing domestically produced long range strike capabilities will make life for puitn even more difficult.

    https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-struck-hundreds-of-targets-deep-inside-russia-in-2024-what-did-they-achieve/

    Happy new year!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭Field east


    are we confusing Russia with Moscow? Does Russia /the word Russia only exist as the Russian Federation. Is it because Moscow currently exists as the capital of the Russian Federation that we seamlessly morph into seeing Moscow and the Oblast, Republic or whatever the hinterland around Moscow is. In other words , to my knowledge there is no oblast , republic , autonomist area called Russia . The word Russia app,it’s to a group of ‘independant areas called oblasts , etc and the whole lot of them make up the Russian Federation



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭Field east


    Having read this post the first words that came to mind were naieve, sanatised, minimalist with the truth, key bits missing and who do you think you are fooling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Caught red handed sort of speak, three “Russian-Germans”

    Part of the wave of criminality and sabotage from Russians across Europe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭Field east


    If The USSR had COMPLETE control over the nuclear arms physically in UKr why then were they part of the agreement when UKr ‘split’ from the USSR which then - of the oblasts, republics, et. Al. That wanted to ‘stick’ together to become the Russian Federation.
    Was it the scrap metal value that that the USSR/RF wanted back or was it the ‘fear’ that if the physical aspect of the nuclear arms were left in situ in UKr that the UKranians might get hold of the code to activate them from the ‘bowls of the Kremlin or somehow develop its own code to activate them OR WHAT?

    There must be SPME REASON as to why USSR/RF wanted I

    The nuclear arnaments covered in the agreement re the establishment of UKr as an independant and sovereign state?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Ireland owes its independence to a small band of brave insurrectionists and British public opinion that had grown tired of war and conflict by 1921. There is no comparison between Ukraine and Russia bar the desire for self determination.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭Field east


    burns never mentioned Finland and Sweden wanting to join and ultimately joining NATO , !!!!! What u have quoted Sands is HIS Opinion and he is entitled to it. - and that is subject to Burns having said it / it not being taken out of context



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭zv2


    Well I see what you're saying but Russia has, for centuries, attacked Ukraine. Are we to assume Russia was attacking itself or admit there is a difference between these two places? Ukrainians are largely closer to Europe/Finland, where many of them originated, whereas Russians are, in a large measure, Asian/Half-cast Europeanish cross breeds.

    @Wibbs "All empires are "legal entities". Until they fall and they're not. Legalities tend to move with the winds of change, just like borders which in our sense of them are quite a "recent" thing"

    Well, by that reasoning, Ukraine is a legal entity since the breakup of the USSR. At any rate, I never took much stock of history as far as this war is concerned. For me the moral issues are central and Russia should be burned down because they are invaders. They always have been. It seems to me that there have always been radical differences between Ukraine and Russia - which is why the Ukrainians took the nazi side in WW2. And these differences carry more weight than language/culture etc.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭zv2


    @Wibbs "Put it this way; Ireland was once part of Great(er) Britain was "legally" codified under the Act of Union, until we decided feck that and feck off, but it would be a re-writing of history to claim we were never part of Britain."

    Well I get what you are saying but if legality must be subject to the vicissitudes of history and force let's forget about all other issues and do a vicissitude on Russia and bomb them into oblivion. Then we can do the legal bit and Russia will be legally fuked. If that's what it all boils down to (might is right) let's do it. Russia has been doing it for ages.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Somewhere out there is an alternative UK that invaded Ireland in 1979, 30 years after we became a republic (going by Republic of Ireland act of 48) tried to claim Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Louth as part of the UK and three years later was still stuck somewhere outisde Dunleer or Carricmacross feeding men into a meatgrinder over a bog and a field here and there, with rockets raining daily on Dublin, Galway, Limerick and Cork

    Oh and the Royal Navy at bottom of Irish Sea and only South Africa wanting to trade with UK

    hmm there’s and idea for a book

    When one looks at it that way it just shows how badly Putin has f***d up in his three day war



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,150 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    To that poster, NATO is hostile.

    Some people have a simple emotional view of countries as personas. These people are very susceptible to dumbed down history with cherry-picked info that portray e.g. the US as an "evil" persona, responsible for pretty much all the bad in the world. Back when I protested the Iraq war, I became very familiar with it.

    Once these people have developed that emotional view, that's it, they then filter all info through that bias. So if they view the US as evil, they by default then NATO is also "evil" - and everything goes through that distorted lens.

    This goes all the way back, in e.g. WW2 this type of reductionist propaganda was extensively used by the German Nazi party and Japanese Nationalists as a way of shifting blame away from themselves for their naked imperialism.

    Often these people don't genuinely support Putin personally, but their dislike of the US/West/NATO is so disproportional, they view him as the lesser evil. And defend him as such. Which is why their views are so similar to Putin's.

    (Or sometimes they'll just support Putin our of sheer bitterness for being called out on it so many times)

    It's not to be confused with normal valid criticism of leaders or their administrations or foreign policy decisions.

    And because they are driven by set world views rather than facts, that often pitches them at odds with the truth - which is why they are so reliant on the same basket of truth bending tricks that dodgy politicians use. Which is why we get all these red flags.

    Come across a Boards poster or anyone who is strangely pro-Putin? You'll usually find that common denominator.

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,840 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,524 ✭✭✭wassie


    Hopefully the world will get to 2026 without nuclear Armageddon

    Sounds like somebody has been watching too many 80s holocaust movies over the break….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    NATO doesn't "expand". Countries request to join. Russia on the other hand expands, like the borg.

    If NATO is so bad, tell me where they invaded a country and started a war ? you know, the way Russia does ?

    "as an Irish person…" 🤣😂 come on, we all know you're an employee of Russia, on here spreading scutter. You do know nobody, bar the other employees believes a word you type.

    Trump could be the best thing for Europe, less reliance on USA and sitting back by European countries. Poor old Russia is in for a shock in the coming years, Russia will have to look south for it's next invasion plans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I think I'd want to see this repeated in a proper media outlet first. i.e. not The Express 🤔.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Looks like someone really has it in for the 810th Brigade. Three significant hits in a week, and two of them after Forbes published this account of them being knackered and needing to take time off.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    My prediction for 2025 is that the notional frontline will continue to creep forwards into still-free Ukraine, but that the real conflict will go in the opposite direction as Ukraine get better and better at tracking, finding and destroying assembly points and logistical hubs.

    I'm sticking to my assessment from much earlier in the year that Ukraine are going to slowly but surely starve the frontline of troops and materials using artillery and simple drones effectively to beseige them from behind while they continue to target Russian refineries, airfields, training grounds and factories in the weapons supply chain with missiles and longer range drones.

    I don't think Putin will capitulate, but I do think someone inside Russia will decide enough is enough and arrange an off-ramp independent of Putin, one way or another. At this stage, I wouldn't be too worried about the prospect of Putin's successor being worse - the weaker Russia becomes, the clearer it'll be to even the dumbest Kremlin politician that the old Soviet ways are finished. A future president might even wake up to the much greater threat to Russia's eastern border than the NATO bogey man on the western one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭SoapMcTavish


    Happy new year ! Russians are insane.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    "as an Irish person…" 🤣😂 come on, we all know you're an employee of Russia, on here spreading scutter. You do know nobody, bar the other employees believes a word you type.

    Eh Sand has been here since way back, long before me that's for sure. One of the genuine "old guard" of Boards so to speak. Just because someone holds a differing opinion(and didn't join up yesterday) it doesn't mean they're a shill, Kremlin or otherwise. It just means they happen to hold a differing opinion.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Fair point. I guess we should be prepared for the worst whatever the case may be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Alright; I noticed this last year and maybe someone in the know about Russians can explain this?

    Is it that the guests are not allowed to touch the (what I assume is) Champagne in their glasses? Has it always been a faux-pax on the New Year’s show, or is this a typical Russian TV thing?

    I ask because throughout that, not once do I see anyone actually take a drink after toasting and every glass there was filled to nearly 1cm of the rim, without exception. No one appeared to be drinking for the duration.

    Is this to prevent their guests getting sh*t-faced (and couple there looked like they desperately wanted to) or to slavishly keep everything picture perfect?

    Just on top of the ultra-nationalist chest thumping, the thing the weirds me out is the presentation of a party environment…and none of the party. Looks like pure hell tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Russians themselves confirm that two helicopters were shotdown

    must be very concerning that so many men and so much equipment being destroyed by unmanned robots



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    If you look at the large cities in Ukraine, Russia rely heavily on Donetsk as a hub. It's like Kyiv and it provides a great platform to store weapons for the frontline.

    The more Russia moves forward the further away they are from their large hubs like Donetsk and Luhansk and the closer they'll be to Ukrainian strongholds like Zaporozhye, Dnipro, Kharkiv, Kramatorsk, Pavlograd etc.

    They need to capture cities like Bakhmut, Toretsk, Povtrosk etc and taking them after they've been levelled isn't ideal. Without that they don't have good staging points. Going by what happened in Vovchansk and now Toretsk it looks like Ukraine will make them level these cities before potentially retreating.

    Instead of their consistent gains snowballing I think they'll end up over stretching themselves which will cost them in the long run.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,570 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Looks like water in the glasses. Assumption is they can't afford champagne and it's been drilled into the people on the show that the glasses are purely props for the tv show and to ensure nobody drinks any water that requires refilling from non existant porters, they've been told the water came from the FSB warehouse.

    Other years they had actual champagne as at least it was the colour of such.

    Russia is a charade. Always has been in Putin's Russia.

    Like the woman shouting "it's all a lie" when Putin's double visited Crimea a good while back.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    Fair enough, but I'm amazed anyone outside the brainwashing of being immersed in Russian propaganda would hold the views that Sand does. To me it goes beyond reasoning to think that way.



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