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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭engineerws


    Seems like the book hit a nerve. I'm at the part now in the book where people are carrying around their eyeballs after the atomic blast in Japan. I haven't finished it yet.

    I hope the war comes to an agreed ceasefire soon. NATO and others committed 380 billion in aide to Ukraine.

    I doubt the war would have continued without NATO support.

    Happy New Year all. Hopefully the world will get to 2026 without nuclear Armageddon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,294 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Let's just remember that you've repeatedly justified a genocidal regime invading Ukraine. If Putin's invasion was a success, he'd have gone beyond Ukraine and I imagine you and some other posters would have found excuses to justify that too. Worth remembering that nations like Poland are heavily backing Ukraine because of that existential threat cause.

    You seem to think regions being held to ransom by a nuclear power is fine... NATO are not responsible for the invasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    that’s a Russian casualty for an area of about 3x3m which is about average sized room any of the readers are probably sitting in now

    very concerning rate of attrition

    Aside; there is literally not enough men of all ages in Russia and North Korea to capture rest of 4 oblasts at this rate, never mind rest of Ukraine

    Happy new year! Everything will be fine

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/31/world/europe/putin-russia-ukraine-speech.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    I doubt the war would have started without Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,926 ✭✭✭Rawr


    ”Concerns” but we all know that this is just another method of saying “Russia strong! Russia has nukes! Give Putin everything he wants!”

    Of course they can’t say that, the mask would not only have slipped but disintegrated into a million shards. So they are “concerned”. Makes you consider the mental exercises at play when one states that they are “concerned” when their real meaning is to support Russia. Is there a degree of self awareness that there is no defence for their preferred position?

    I’m thinking in general, not just on here, but we have discussed before the phenomenon of typically anti-West ranters around the world who will defend the likes of Russia simply because they are contra to an America-centric western world. But in doing this they seem to wilfully ignore the demonstrable crimes of the Russian state, and the very fact that Russia started an unnecessary war on a gamble, for the sake of one man.

    So they keep clear of those uncomfortable facts of civilians being abused and murdered en-masse by the chaotic military organs of Russia. Instead they bring their own more comfortable “facts”:

    “It’s because of NATO. Ukraine were asking for it.”

    “They are Nazies, and Zelenski is eeeevil!”

    “Russia has nukes! There’s nothing to be done! Let them win!!”

    “Look! Another battlefield update where Ukraine are slowly losing ground! They should just surrender now!”

    All of these are easier than engaging with the less palatable reality that in supporting Russia they are supporting the 21st Century’s answer to Nazi Germany. This is of course in service to the Russians, either by design or influence, so the Kremlin will do their best to help such inclined individuals ignore the bad stuff and keep focused on Russia’s greatness.

    But remember to be “concerned”. That way a casual reader might not suspect the Russian support therein.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭engineerws


    For the record, I never once justified the Russian invasion of Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,089 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Where's the posts condemning the invasion as an unjustified and illegal act of aggression? Well?

    And accepting as a fact that Russia has carried out war crimes in its conduct of the war, and condemned them eg Bucha.
    No reservations, no both sides, no weasel words eg well if Russia have done so…
    Actual condemnation of actual wrong doing by Russia.

    Silence and false both sides equivocations = approval of and justification of Russia's invasion.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Seems like the book hit a nerve.

    More like an amused incredulity that you're still pushing this particular Kremlin script.

    I'm at the part now in the book where people are carrying around their eyeballs after the atomic blast in Japan.

    🤣 Oh man, it gets better.

    I haven't finished it yet.

    Links book they haven't finished yet, so don't even know its content. Thinks it hits a nerve…

    Maybe this stuff plays and preaches to the converted, but boy oh boy it comes across as amateur hour to anybody outside that audience. And it really doesn't reflect well on the critical thinking of that audience.

    I hope the war comes to an agreed ceasefire soon. NATO and others committed 380 billion in aide to Ukraine.

    I doubt the war would have continued without NATO support.

    Ah the old "we're fighting NATO" eh? Gotta love the classics. And wouldn't have started without a Russian invasion. Meanwhile Russia needs Iran and North feckin' Korea to help fight a significantly smaller foe.

    Happy New Year all. Hopefully the world will get to 2026 without nuclear Armageddon

    We would have also accepted biolabs, NATO expansion, Gay Trans nazis, Maidan coup, but it seems you drew the atomic sabre rattling straw, and a short one it is.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    Agreed, Russians would have been raping and kidnapping children from the entire Ukraine only for NATO.

    That wiki map should be updated to show Russia as a, albeit unintentionally, donor of heavy equipment to Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    Good to see the president of France saying Europe needs to back Ukraine, and not rely on the US.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Your scenario of a dominant artillery force of putin's terrorists that saunters forward and demolishes villages and towns has been a feature of parts of the front lines in Ukraine but along the majority of the front there has been very little movement and figures I saw recently put the overall advance of putin's terrorists to that point of the year to be less than half a percent of the overall land area of Ukraine. The count of artillery units that the armed forces of Ukraine has eliminated since the start of the overall invasion now stands at 21,532 and I would argue that your statement that Ukrainian land offering nowhere to hide is a greater problem for putin's terrorists than it is for the Ukrainians defending their homeland.

    Meanwhile artillery ammunition sent to Ukraine from Germany continues to rise with their Rheinmetall company having reached its target for increased 155mm shell production to 700,000 per year in 2024:

    qcr165ndv1ae1.png

    https://x.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1873730763738288501



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Heh I don’t think he is the one who drew the short straw (and anyways it’s Wednesday we were long overdue for some nuclear sabre rattling this week)

    That honour falls to the fella banging the “Russia is a legitimate democracy, and Ukraine doesn’t have a democratic leader” drum on previous pages



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,294 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    You've previously blamed NATO for the invasion, you absolutely justified it. On top of that, I'm pretty sure you'll claim genocide is not occurring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I read it a few months ago. I am not sure of relevance here (are you just rehashing the old, fairly discredited arguments that noone should dare to help Ukraine, because Putin has lots of nukes and he might get angry and use them)?

    Afair the scenario begins with Kim Jong Un deciding he is finished with life and wants to go with a bang, so he launches a first strike (incl. nuclear weapons) on the US mainland and South Korea.

    It rests on fact that Kim has the power to do something crazy like that, and the regime there has always been unpredictible, and paranoid, and they now have nuclear weapons and delivery systems that will likely work.

    I am no expert of course but I thought the Russian aspect of the scenario in the book was unrealistic myself in a few respects…thoughts?

    I suppose maybe there is some relevance, in that Putin has gotten very desperate in Ukraine and he has himself somewhat in hock to Kim.

    We must all fear how NK's missiles and other weapons could be improved by technology transfers. Thanks for that, Russia!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,041 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Ukraine never gave up nuclear weapons. Thats just disinformation.

    The USSR had nuclear weapons stationed throughout its territory. After the breakup of the USSR, some of these weapons and their support units found themselves physically within the borders of Ukraine. At all times the weapons and their support units were loyal to their commanders in Moscow (i.e. Russia). At no time did Ukraine ever control the weapons, nor have access to their launch codes. At no time did Ukraine ever have a nuclear arsenal of its own. It had foreign controlled nuclear weapons deployed by a foreign state (Russia) within its own borders.

    All that happened was the orderly return of Russian nuclear weapons from Ukraine to Russian territory. It's like saying Turkey gave up its nuclear weapons when the US withdrew US nuclear weapons from its territory after the Cuban missile crisis.

    As for the Budapest agreements, the USA ripped them up when it used economic coercion against Belarus and overthrew the democratically elected Ukrainian government. Both of which were barred by the agreement, which the US was a signatory to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    The count of artillery units that the armed forces of Ukraine has eliminated since the start of the overall invasion now stands at 21,532

    Not only is Ukraine efficiently destroying huge quantities of Russian/Soviet artillery, but they're now regularly eliminating 90-100% of all the Shahed drones sent into Urkainian airspace. Another example of Russia literally wasting millions of roubles for no military gain whatsoever.

    Although I agree with all those who say it's shocking that our collective western governments sat on their hands for far too long and left Ukraine to bear the human, ecological and financial cost of Putin's imperial ambitions, I've come around to the idea that there is a significant silver lining to not stopping him in his tracks back in 2022/23.

    If an EU-US coalition had stood up to him will all their military might, and sent him back to his bunker with his tail between his legs, that would have left us with a warm fuzzy feeling of having done right by Ukraine but little more. Russia would have kept its reputation as a mighty force, well-armed with cutting edge technology.

    Instead, we've all learnt that everything they have and use is shite. Their arms export industry is in the (stolen) toilet. Production can barely keep up with their daily needs, and most of that isn't really manufacture but rehabilitation of old stock. What weaponry is available for third parties is being given away in exchange for single-use "human resources". *When* the conflict ends, there will be feck all interest in buying expensive Russian arms than can be defeated by cheap drones; and feck all means for Russia to produce them anyhow. I'm pretty sure China will be more than happy to fill any gaps in the market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Yet more lies

    Ukraine had 1500 “dumb” low yield tactical nukes AND bomber planes for them

    That were not of the rocket in silos kind requiring launch codes

    Not that I doubt that been a technical issue with those either seeing how Ukrainians are running flying circles around dumb Russians when it comes to tech

    Did you find proof of Putin being legitimate democratically elected leader for over 25 years in free and fair elections where he represents the will of the Russian people? Who i doubt want to lose their sons, husbands and brothers for plots of land no larger than typical cemetery plot



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,089 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    How were they 'Russian' weapons? They were Soviet. Ukraine gave up strategic weapons inherited from the USSR.
    Not just nuclear weapons but I referenced that point to demonstrate how obviously hypocritical were the vatnik concerns expressed about nuclear weapons in the area. Obviously false concerns backed up by nothing except disinformation.

    Russia applied economic coercion against Ukraine, when Ukraine was considering signing an EU association treaty.
    A clear violation of Budapest.
    Then repeated violations of Budapest such as invasion of Crimea.

    The US did not 'overthrow' the elected government of Ukraine. That was done by the people and parliament of Ukraine when the President lost his mandate through tyrannical actions including ordering attacks on civilians. The US could not mobilise such opposition even if they wanted to.
    So that is just more vatnik nonsense.

    Russia has stationed nuclear weapons in Belarus.
    But of course, we don't hear any concerns from the vatniks about that when being oh so concerned about nuclear weapons, do we?
    Belarus is a vassal state of Russia. It allowed its territory to be used to launch attacks against Ukraine. And any US sanctions on Belarus are a recognition of that reality. Belarus is a dictatorship with a corrupt stooge propped up by Russian military.

    The fate Russia had in store for Ukraine. A situation you have urged Ukraine.

    You are posting on the thread from some parallel universe where Putin was elected in some sort of fair and free elections. In reality he is a dictator engaged in an illegal war of aggression in Ukraine, a war conducted with war crimes and atrocity.

    Your claims have no credibility.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭brickster69


    A criminal investigation is underway into the newly formed 155th Anna de Kyiv Mechanized Brigade which was trained in France. Parts of this brigade were the ones who fled the fortifications as the Russians were approaching on the outside of Pokrovsk a few weeks ago.

    Sounds like organized chaos with mass desertions and significant losses leading to the defense of the city being on the verge of collapse.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I doubt the war would have started without Russia's aggression.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,841 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    It's a real shame that the Section 8 of the new Hate Crimes Bill that became law yesterday didn't keep the Genocide denial elements. I'm not usually one for tattle tales but there's a few on here who could do with taking a long hard look at themselves and their contributions to society.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭junkyarddog


    Yet another cowardly attack on innocent civilians,how very russian!🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,841 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    This is just disinformation on your part. Ukraine was a part of the ussr as much as Russia was. It's not like returning stolen art from the pyramids to their rightful owners. Ukraine had as much right to retain those nuclear weapons, perhaps more since they were primarily involved in their creation, than any clown in the Kremlin.

    Regardless, they most certainly did give up the nuclear weapons in return for a guarantee. They kept their side of the pact, unlike your hero Russian belligerents.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Russian propaganda: Europe will freeze without us

    Russian Mir reality: our puppet colony is freezing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭Field east


    Ukr at that time did not REALLY know what Putin was like like we ALL know what he is like now IE a man NEVER TO BE TRUSTED EVER, EVER , EVER AGAIN. Giving up weapons was a good bargain , at the time, in exchange , for what the UKR thought was a cast iron guarantee re its sovereignty - in all its forms - being respected.

    The turning point for me over the last few years with regards to international cooperation/ relations;sustained existance of peace and prosperity was over a 6 to eight year period when Russia began be stealth to cause ‘obvious disruptions ‘ to international order by invading Georgia ; 🍐Its involvement in Moldovia,; then moving on to Crimea and shortly followed by sending his little green men to Donetsk and Luhansk; then doing another ‘ SMALL LITTLE PIECE of an invasion of more of UKr - to last for 3.days max in 2022

    All little bits of actions that were seen as TOO SMALL for the WEST to act And while all this was going on Putin knew that he was ‘ getting away with it by being invited to various countries, his presence was respected at various international conferences, hosted some international events eg. Olympics and to cap it all Angela Merkal was building gas pipelines from Russia to Germany - to boost his own , his friends and ( with what was left). His nations coffers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    And more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,041 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    No, that is just disinformation.

    The nuclear forces transferred from the USSR to Russia. They were never Ukrainian nuclear weapons. Their units were manned by Russian military, the authority and ability to use them was exclusively held by Russia and they followed the orders of the Russian state. At no time were they under the control of the Ukrainian state. They just happened to be deployed in a foreign country (Ukraine), much as Russian weapons are deployed in another foreign country (Belarus) today.

    The whole "Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons" is just another story from the UCU. Ukraine never had an independent nuclear arsenal to give up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Interesting quote there

    On 17 October 2024, President Zelenskyy claimed that he told former US president Donald Trump that if Ukraine was unable to secure NATO membership, it would have no option but to reacquire a nuclear arsenal.

    very concerning, especially since Ukraine has 7 tons of plutonium



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Interestingly, some vatnik commentators I've observed, in their eagerness to absolve Ruzzia both past and present of any wrongdoing, are eager to emphasize the equality of the republics in the union state as a way of throwing blame on every other constituent nation in the USSR for the crimes of the Soviet Union: ' Khruschev was a Ukrainian' . Well, if they were all equal, then they were all equal in nuclear matters as well and Ukraine had a right to the nukes in its territory just as much as Ruzzia had a right to the ones on Ruzzian soil.

    Post edited by ilkhanid on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    more disingenuous disinformation

    The facilities in Ukraine were all in central and western Ukraine manned by Ukrainian Soviets

    Typical of Russian Putinbots trying to rewrite history just like you lot insist Stalin did not sign an alliance with Hitler, or that as percentage of population Ukrainians and Belarusians died in droves to defend against Hitler when that alliance backfired, or recent history your lot trying to push that at first Russia won’t attack and when they did that it was only a “special operation”

    Everything you post is a lie



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