Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.

Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

1179180182184185571

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭AngeloArgue


    Could we be nearing the endgame?

    I've been thinking about were both sides are with their positions and with the realpolitik of how things are likely to play out in the near term.

    The Ukrainians have seemed to come to terms that they will not be driving the Russians out militarily, they will not be joining NATO any time soon, and any bilateral security guarantees that they were looking for seem rather anaemic without US involvement, and the other countries that were given support being lukewarm about getting directly involved. It's already being signalled that they will live with the Russian occupation without recognising any legitimacy to their territorial claims and work through peaceful means towards a full eventual reunification.

    The Russians core interests are with the military alignment of Ukraine and with their territorial claims. I've already mentioned the unlikelihood of Ukraine joining NATO and the lukewarm military commitment from other European countries, so things aren't a million miles away from consensus on that front. What remains is Russia's territorial claims. They've spoken about the entirety of the four oblasts and Crimea. I don't think they have the support back home or will to go any further than the rest of Luhansk and Donetsk.

    Could the Ukrainians concede to Russian occupying the remaining parts of the Donbass without a fight? Probably not.

    What we do know is that the new Trump administration are coming in and America wants an off ramp. And some might speculate that they want to bring Russia in from the cold as they square off against China. Would America concede Donbass? Who knows? But It's pretty much on the cards that US military support to Ukraine is going to be cut either way. And that the Ukrainians will take very seriously what the US considers a reasonable deal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,840 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    When the only constant is that Putin never keeps his or Russias word how do you ever negotiate anything?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Bitcoin


    The Ukrainians have seemed to come to terms that they will not be driving the Russians out militarily, they will not be joining NATO any time soon

    The orcs never give up, do they?

    We're back right where we were three years ago. The Ukrainians have to surrender land for peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,431 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Russia has no right to tell any country what international treaties it can sign. Declaring that as a basis for starting negotiations show that Russia has never been serious about a peace process.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    "Donald Trump is expected to include a visit to Ireland as part of a European trip planned for next summer when he will open his new multi-million-pound golf course in Scotland."

    Irish independent.

    As a few of us have been predicting. Trump doesn't care about Ukraine.

    It's all about the golf.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭Deub


    Why do you only do the assessment of Ukraine?

    Can you also do one for Russia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    Russia much Stronk.

    In reality burning through North Korean meat, and economy imploding. But, Ukraine better surrender quick… like really quick while there’s still a Russia to surrender to. Don’t delay, limited time offer!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭SoapMcTavish


    ….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    Ukrainian Sea Babies have taken out a helicopter for the first time.

    IMG_1007.jpeg


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,837 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    don’t worry the Vatniks will be along shortly to tell us that this is all part of Putlers plan and that Russia are holding back with all their good weaponry…. And if they so wanted could overrun Ukraine in a matter of (3) days… and to let Ukraine have their fun with their toy boats…..

    FCUK RUSSIA



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I can see something similar enough. From early on I thought retaking Crimea was a pipedream. On the ground in voting down the years it's always been about the most pro Russia. Since 2014 what pro Ukraine sympathies and people have either left for somewhere in the rest of Ukraine or elsewhere.

    At one stage I thought they might have been able to retake the Mariupol area and break up the Russian land bridge, but Ukraine simply didn't have the men or materiel to do it, and again it's likely the pro Ukraine people have left. Many of the pro Russian people left too(While millions headed west when the area was an active warzone, over a million headed for Russia), but many of them could return further slanting the allegiance percentage. Russia not being exactly well know for human rights and freedoms any pro Ukrainians left behind their lines will likely keep their heads down, or try to leave, or "disappear".

    On the other hand Ukraine did take back Kherson and Kharkiv, so they're off the map for Russia unless something radical changes. The claim that they were "forever Russia" will be quietly memory holed. As usual. And Russia supporters will happily accept this Kremlin amnesia. As usual. Ditto for "Odessa is Russia".

    The NATO angle was always Kremlin scutter and an excuse for a land grab. They've only succeeded in increasing the size of NATO and militarising Ukraine. They also massively sped up Ukraine's entry into the EU, and woke Europe up(though they've been slow to get out of bed).

    Imho Russia's "core interests" were far more about seeing Ukraine as "theirs"(like Belarus and Georgia) far more than they saw Latvia, Estonia, Poland etc. Those ex Soviet bloc nations looking west was irritating, but they could also write them off as ex colonies and live with it, or spin it that way. Ukraine not nearly so much. It was too close to home culturally. That and natural resources of course, and a means to keep Putin looking czar-like.

    Bringing Russia back into the fold is a long way off. They're now massively indebted to China and China like it that way. China needs energy and food, Russia has both and now cheaper than ever. Even if sanctions were lifted in the morning Europe will be very slow in getting back into bed with Moscow and the US doesn't have to and doesn't want Europe to do so. Moscow burnt too many bridges.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,097 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Many European countries can co-operate with their neighbours in a positive way. With Russia the only operation is a special military one, and there's no co-operation because no-one trusts them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,622 ✭✭✭Field east


    maybe it’s Polands idea of a ‘Turkey Shoot’. More productive if a war broke out when the ground is soft - the invaders would have to stick to the all weather road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    @Sand you were saying something about legitimacy and free and fair democratic elections being a pre requisite for negotiation

    /s

    Immensely enjoying Russians with their dictator for life and no free press or free and fair elections trying to explain how democracy meant to work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,837 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    meanwhile in Russia, whatever prisoners survive the SMO will be a tad disappointed to discover that their lump sum payment they were promised for going to kill Ukrainians will in fact not be paid….. because they were prisoners….

    9c4d3c8d-1c6c-4494-9b07-d0ce95dfc91d.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Why can't Russia ever admit that they were struck by a Ukrainian drone or missile. Ukraine admit it plenty. Every single time a target is hit whether it a building, ammo depot or oil depot it's always from debris after they shot down a Ukrainian drone or missile. They must think people are stupid. On Russian telegrams none of the Russians are actually believing this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    The regime is built on perceptions and lies

    Under no circumstance can they cause anything undermine the perception of the Russian sheep population that the wolves are not in charge


    Unfortunately, the Russian Federation knows how to work with the information space. That is why any event — imagine a rocket that falls into the Kremlin — they will show it as a victory for Russia. They will claim that they’ve prevented the biggest catastrophe to mankind by having that rocket fall into the Kremlin, that this missile has actually demolished the building it was supposed to and has even helped them. It sounds like a joke, but indeed, Russian society is accepting of such stupidities.” - Budanov 2023



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I'm struggling to post the link but a odd'ish story from Violetta Baran from the US about a top-level Russian diplomatic flight over Christmas to the US. Russian embassy claims rotation of diplomatics, Violetta says increasing talk of hush hush behind the since talks between Biden administration and Russia about ending the war against Ukraine.

    Here's a quote from the story.

    The top leadership of Russia uses this plane for official flights.

     Dmitry Medvedev and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov have previously flown on it. Sergey Naryshkin, the head of SVR, also used the Ilyushin Il-96-300. Vladimir Putin also flies a plane of the same type of aircraft.

    This aircraft is from the Russian Special Flight Squadron.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭zv2


    I have it from Russian sources that all Russian buildings that were hit were listed for demolition anyway.

    Post edited by zv2 on

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,201 ✭✭✭Mike3549


    What ruble is doing?

    Screenshot_20241231-131611~2.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭macraignil


    The statement released from Ukraine saying that a cease fire and regaining their illegally occupied territory at a later date was contingent on them joining NATO. putin and his terrorist sympathisers are now twisting this into Ukraine saying it is wiling to concede to all of putin's demands which like most things this group comes out with are from what I can see just lies. This war has repeatedly shown that conventional frontal assaults are usually very costly and maybe you are right that Ukraine can't as things stand regain their territory by conventional military assaults.

    What they have proved more recently is that they have developed a strong ability to strike at putin's terrorists and the economy that supports them remotely and at no human cost to their military with drones and missiles both produced by Ukraine and supplied by countries that see the value in stopping putin's efforts to expand his empire. I don't think Ukraine will need to retake all of its illegally occupied territory by conventional assaults and if putin wont give them up by diplomatic means they will just keep making puitin's adventure in Ukraine too costly to continue no mater how many years it takes to grind down the moskovytes.

    https://mil.in.ua/en/news/drones-strike-oil-depot-in-smolensk-region/

    Scre41enshot_1-1.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭macraignil




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The statement released from Ukraine saying that a cease fire and regaining their illegally occupied territory at a later date was contingent on them joining NATO

    It might be contingent for them currently, but imho it's not going to happen any time soon. Any territorial conflict blocks them from joining by NATO's own rules(I suspect even a frozen/ceasefire would fall under that), and they'd have to get the nod from all NATO members. They're both very large hurdles. Imho it actually doesn't matter, nor mattered nearly as much as the Kremlin claimed as one of their lame excuses to invade. If European allies keep supplying military materiel that covers much of their defence capabilities, even if the US backs off.

    Never mind that regaining their illegally occupied territory is currently very much on the long finger and Crimea is on the long finger on somebody else's hand. Unless Russia collapses from within(imho we're still a goodly way from that too, though with Russia…) Ukraine quite simply doesn't have the men and materiel to do it. It comes down to the numbers. Partisan war will have some effect of course, but again their numbers are a problem. Like I said a helluva lot of pro Ukrainian folks in those occupied territories left when it went full warzone. Pro Russians left too, but they're far more likely to go back. There's also war fatigue involved, so a fair number of those on the fence might well think sod this we need some normality back for the moment and play along, even if it is under Putin.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,423 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I think it's a bit naive to think that an agreement or settlement could end the war. Dissident Ukrainians will be blowing up Russians for the next 100+ years. Putin has effectively created a permanent thorn in Russians side for what might as well be the rest of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    As attractive as that may be for those at the coal face, what stops Russia (Putin/or encouraged successor) playing the same trick to take another 20% of Ukraine in the near future? The precedent will have been set. Credible pretext is not a barrier.


    Against. Russia will have paid a very dear price for the gains. And they will have won the most prized areas of Ukraine re mineral wealth.

    For. Russian will be smarting as to what happened their mighty Russian fleet. They will want ALL Ukraine coastline. With that Ukraine rare earth minerals they will bounce back quicker economically.

    As tough as it seems, Russia is as weak now as it will be for a long time if ‘left off the hook’.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭macraignil


    I agree that NATO membership for Ukraine may be a difficult goal to achieve and it is my opinion that there still is too much of a distance between the position of Ukraine and that of putin for a simple diplomatic agreement to be reached in the short term.

    What Ukraine has on its side now is much more than a simple partisan movement but a powerful experienced military of over a million active personnel, its own arms industry and a number of economically powerful countries that have committed to continued support as they face an illegal invasion by a terrorist state.

    The USSR could not stay in Afghanistan when Afghanistan had much less international support than Ukraine does. I can't see how putin can succeed in getting anything positive from his terrorist activities as even if some of Ukraine's allies supply less in future the Ukrainians simply will rely more on what they can produce themselves.

    https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russia-claims-use-of-peklo-drones-against-them/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    US assistance is the only leverage Trump has over Ukraine, while on other hand keeping Russian energy down helps his drill baby drill dreams and of course the arms industry is booming

    I suspect if US aid disappears then a lot of operation such as directly targeting Russia oil pipeline infrastructure and oil tankers on which their whole economy depends suddenly become juicy targets, they held off attacking these on request from Biden which never made sense to me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭jmreire


    It was a known Russian military HQ, and would have been under surveillance I'd imagine. When the dead officers and their function become known, it will become clearer if it was a targetted attack.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,171 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And there was a question asked as to why Biden and Harris cut their holidays, and returned to Washington….



Advertisement