Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

I think its 12 counties in Leinster with a population pull of about 2.9 Million. 6 counties in Connaught and Munster. Connaught cant be more than 600-700K and Munster must be 1.5 million. So they are never going to have a stream of Talent to match Leinster apart from the odd golden generation maybe every 20 years.

Uncompetitive provinces wont do anything to enhance the game or attract new eyes. It would be interesting to get the season ticket sales for each province for the last few years to see how thats trending

I never see much criticism of the executive leadership group at Munster around here. The current CEO is a sports marketing guy w a background in other sports. Sponsorship and business vision is vital to the health of a team but for me it’s the wrong skill set for the top guy, Munster need a root and beach vision to produce players and a winning team, that should be priority number one. The fish rite from the head, and the model is failing currently.

Telling us all to produce our own players isn't the answer, if its as easy as that, please, tell us all the magic formula. At the same time that doesn't absolve Munster from their lack of development and pathways over the last decade or so. That's on us and looks like it has been addressed but nowhere near producing the Players in the positions needed, which also seems to be a country wide problem

if its as easy as that, please, tell us all the magic formula

No one said it was easy. It will be very difficult. But it's still the only solution.

Its the ideal solution alright but if you cant produce the very high end players for the pool at your disposal what next. I dont have the answers but id like to hear what plans the IRFU have in place because with the 4, the game will fade backwards in many areas. We need the kids of today to grow, and sustain interest. You can already see what Limericks emergence in the GAA has done to crowds for attendances. We certainly have to sustainably build for the future but we also have to worry about the here & now.

Interpro games should be nail biters and not the turgid or onesided affairs of the last number of years with the odd cracker thrown in

so we’re back to the old “its your own fault you’re poor, and you’re not getting any of “my” money #teamofthem. 😂

Seriously though,

No one is saying Munster should not be looking for their own solutions and yes Toulouse and most french team have bigger budgets, but the do play way more matches then us.

If we can get transparency from the IRFU on how much money is spent on each province, including CC players, then it would become clearer of the disadvantage other provinces have compared to leinster .

Now obviously the IRFU aren’t in a position to give equal amounts to all provinces , so it becomes a fine balancing act.

At least the new “upto” 30% of CC are funded by each province thus rebalancing the only somewhat (bit dubious about the upto figure).

IMO it’s not that the Toulouse of this world are significantly better than they were during the early 00’s , it’s the Irish provinces that are a bit weaker , including the team leinster from 2009-2014. That’s why leinster and all the provinces need the outside injection of talent , just like Toulouse La Rochelle etc to compete at the highest level.

No one begrudges leinster their “own money “ from the schools development system and bumper gates (which is a great achievement for any organisation)

But id guess the overall leinster revenue and income is significantly more than the other provinces when you add in , IRFU , sponsors, gate money, and their outgoings for players is less than other provinces due to the CC situation upto now.

Would the Leinster net “profit” be double that of Connacht for instance. ?

That would justify the expense of Barrett and Snyman.

Should leinster be penalized for generating the extra income ? Absolutely not, but when they also have extra funding available from the CC scenario obtained from the IRFU , then the ethos of #teamofus and team ireland must come into it, no ?

Pro sport is all about money and if you have more than your opposition , you can be successful. The balancing act for the IRFU is above all they need a performing mens senior side to generate income. They get this by carefully managing the players they have by keeping them in the provinces and paying a reasonable amount of money for their services.

If they don't pay the rate for the top players then they will go elsewhere and that could weaken the Irish team and that hits the bottom line.

I think the club game will surpass the international game and the money will follow. This will drive different dynamic in the game , much like soccer or golf or NFL or NBA etc.

Making the provinces stronger and more competitive can ONLY be done by improving the output of their own academies.

This just isn’t true. Yes, it’s the primary, most fundamental way.

But NIQ’s are a way too. Nobody will convince me that Munster wouldn’t have been significantly improved with an NIQ prop instead of Abrahams.

That’s not even asking for more NIQ’s. That’s just asking for NIQ’s in the position that coaches think they’re most necessary.

Not if what's coming behind isn't the required standard. It can't be a case of produce or flounder. We have to remain competitive

but the alternative is constant importation of NIQ players, which we know IRFU won’t allow.

BTW - before I’m accused of seeking attention or voyeurism or some other fetish - I think hard and fast rules like “no NIQ props” are stupid and ultimately unworkable, but the reality is that all the provinces have to operate under the IRFU system of prioritisation of the national team. That’s the inescapable reality of the situation and wishing it away isn’t very constructive.

As you’ve pointed out, some fans will simply lose interest as a result. Many posters here have already either lost interest in or actively dislike the national team precisely because they see IRFU policies as holding their province back.

There’s a balance to be struck, I personally don’t think IRFU have it right but I see what they’re trying to do.

For the record I want Munster to be only a slightly bit less successful than Leinster. My parents are both from Munster and support Munster as is my wife.
And I don’t agree with the NIQ prop ban as it is too blunt. If Snymans contract is as has been reported that he cannot start in front of Ryan/McCarthy than a similar clause could be in a props contract that they can only play 50 minutes max in Europe etc. But one NIQ prop wouldn’t solve Munsters issues, you’re not going to be allowed a full NIQ front row.
And yes the central contracts are currently massively in favour of Leinster. But that is a product of Leinster developing the best players. It wasn’t always the case. How would you suggest we change the central contract offer to reward Irish players and help keep them in Ireland without also handicapping Leinster? Maybe a bonus based in making squads/23s. That way more players get a piece of the pie. Although injured players than get penalised. It’s a tough one.
Finally, Leinster sold out the aviva/croke park how many times last year? Should they not be allowed spend that money on marquee players? It’s not like the other provinces have not had World Cup winners in their squad in the last also. Munster still have one.

Ok, so you can see what the IRFU are trying to.

Now can you see what Munster are trying to do?

But to go back to Frannos initial question I think the internet helps the fringe views to get more attention.
It is easy to look at Leinster and feel like the game is rigged. But they’re mostly a product of their own success. They’ve the best academy so they produce the best players who in turn get the most central contracts which makes Leinster more successful so they sell more tickets so they make more money so they can afford better NIQs etc.

A lot of Munster supporters can look at that and feel aggrieved and want a more equitable system. But as has been discussed ad naseum it is difficult to come up with a scenario that doesn’t punish Leinster to improve the others.
There is then the fringe views who see it as the IRFU purposefully sabotaging everybody else just so Leinster can succeed and Andy Farrell only wants to select them. Any critical thinking of this shows how outlandish it is. And to be fair I think the majority of the Munster supporters on boards are of the more level headed variety as compared to twitter/reddit/munsterfans.

Also apologies if I come across as a holier than thou Leinster fan. I genuinely want Munster to do well but it really annoys me when fans don’t support an Irish province when they play a foreign team.

not the place for this and I certainly don’t want to get drawn into this rubbish debate but I’m sceptical of that 80/20 split, I suspect some of that’s down to putting things on balance sheets that suits the narrative.

Things are not as dire as some people are making out, injuries to top players have been huge factor, a dip in form for others and also new coach mid season. Things can turn around.

onto next match v Saracens on 11th

Hopefully have POM, Crowley, Murray, Barron, and maybe Loughman ? at least back for this one.

Although thought Coughlan had a good game last week.

Saracen’s have Bristol at home, then us away, then castre at home then Exeter away,

they’re 2 from 2 in CC so they would expect to get 5 from castre game at home , which should give them top 2 in group, id say (hope) they will do a mix and match for our game.

With very few options up front Id expect a team of Bluler, Scannell, Jager, Beirne, Ahern, POM, Hodnett, Coombes, Murray, Crowley, Daly, Scannell, Farrell, Nash, Haley

With a bench of ryan, Barron, Archer, EOC , Kendellan, Gleeson, Coughlan, Burns.