Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

19349359379399401064

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    But nobody is stopping the other provinces from signing their allotment of NIQ players. Recently Munster had Snyman and De Allende, Ulster had Kitshoff and Vermuelen. Connacht have Cordero and Ioane. Leinster are simply replacing the 3 NIQs they let go in Ngatai, Jenkins and Alalaatoa. I wouldn't say their wage bill changed massively with these signings.

    Also Leinster are the most profitable and successful province they've earned the right to have some luxuries. It is not the NIQs holding the other provinces back.



  • Subscribers Posts: 43,246 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    if hes only 15 hes only missed 2 years of very, very basic prop learning.

    "meter and a half" push at 13s, 14s and 15s age grade is really treated as "have one push and hold". In about 6 years of coaching at that level ive only ever seen 1 scrum penalty given (in an u16s game by a ref who was being assessed at the time)

    If hes interested he would pick up propping instruction quite easily, but in no circumstances should he be propping at Junior level without proper coaching. He should get more game time with more experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Furlong, Clarkson, Slimani, McGuire. Furlong is Ireland first choice, Clarkson is now an international and has been one earmarked as a potential long term international in last few years. Slimani is justified

    Munster have Archer, Ryan, Jager, Salanoa. None are Ireland regulars

    Ryan, McCarthy are Ireland regulars and Molony left for Bath last summer. Snyman is justified.

    Munster have Beirne, Kleyn, Edogbo, Wycherley, Ahern. One Ireland regular. Edogbo and Ahern should be getting gametime at lock.

    Lowe, Keenan, Ringrose, Henshaw, Osborne are now Ireland wider squad regulars with 4 usually in 23s so Barrett is justified.

    Munster had Haley, Burns, Abrahams, Nankivell and Farrell starting v Lions last month. 5 of the 7 starting backs all signings. I know 3 are IQ etc but still. It's not like Munster aren't given leeway to sign players. Like in recent times it was snyman, DDA, Fekitoa, Nankivell, Frisch, Abrahams plus the IRFU assisted in Jager being signed etc.

    Despite the fact these guys get signed, it isn't impinging on those already in the Leinster system getting gametime or Ireland call ups as evidenced in November.

    Post edited by niallm77 on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Maybe Slimani and Barrett had no interest in going to Munster? People need to stop talking about players as if they are chess pieces for the IRFU to move around at will (particularly foreign ones).

    For the record, I categorically would not stand in the way of Munster signing an NIQ prop if it were up to me. Their front row is absurdly poor and it is holding back the whole team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 649 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Some just don't see this, you are wasting your breath. Munster chose Kleyn over Synman. He was free to go elsewhere and replaced Jenkins at Leinster. Munster then signed Abrahams, Nankavli and Farrell but still moan about Leinster signing Barrett when they provide basically the full backline to the Irish team and miss chunks of the season.

    Munster can't keep anybody fit or even keep coaches around but remember it's all Leinster and IRFUs fault and nothing to do with how Munster is being run.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 392 ✭✭El Vino


    Certainly not Leinsters fault, IRFU could have allowed Munster to strengthen front row further, that would be my main complaint. Still depending on Ryan, Scannell, Killer and Archer for Champions Cup games is patently ridiculous.

    I don't know if Munster can be blamed on injury front but of course they have got loads wrong over last 5 years despite winning a trophy and topping the league.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Munster squad depth is suffering from the lost years in the academy where lads would be around 27-32. A few astute signings should help that. Jaeger last year and a couple more like him would go a long way.

    I'd be more concerned about some of the recent progress from the academy and that the same problem doesn't repeat itself.

    Ahern is around 6 months younger than Baird and hasn't progressed at same rate. He looked the outstanding talent in his age bracket.

    Crowley and Casey have come through so I think the system is probably ok.

    For me though some of the outstanding 20's prospects have been hodnett, kendellan, edogbo, gleeson and the aforementioned trio. Granted time on their side and I'd back the vdf replacement to come from hodnett or kendellan but you'd like to see a little more progress (injuries not withstanding)

    hadden, fox and McSweeney all looked good in a position of need but still no sign of them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Well the thing is that you can't really ignore the injuries. They've nearly all had long term injuries since their U20 days.

    Hodnett missed 10 months after an achilles tear.

    Edogbo is still recovering from an achilles tear picked up last December.

    Gleeson is just back after shoulder surgery.

    Ahern missed most of the 22/23 season after shoulder injury. He was called up for the 6N squad last season but had to pull out due to another injury. He was again injured at the start of this season and didn't get called up to the AIs.

    Also if the props in the academy were ready they'd be picked. Kieran Ryan has 6 appearances this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Yea, that's fair.

    Still think the props could have got a bit of a look in during some of the friendlies if nothing else

    The idea of Lancaster going in there and adding a bit to all those players in a similar way he did at Leinster must be very appealing to the irfu.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭letowski


    I think the production from the academy has seen a noticeable uptick in recent years. Watching some of the recent Irish u20s like Gleeson and O’Connell holding their own at European Cup level is promising, Ben O’Connor played last year too. We got a good to reasonable depth of young talent at the second row, back row, half back and back 3 position groups.
    It’s just finding props, and to a lesser extent centres, that’s holding the club back from contending at European level. It’s a tough one, Irish rugby has never had a deep pool of quality professional props, finding the player with both requisite talent and physique is difficult. It’s tougher further when the French clubs are brining in young players out of school from places like the Pacific Islands and Georgia to develop them in their academy. I can’t see us going down that path either, though we sort of did it with Keynan Knox but it didn’t work out.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭50HX


    Klyen has had surgery to correct a quad injury.

    No timeline on a return though

    It's better it gets with Abrahams & Casey



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭CONSI


    and you know what, if we had kept RG and let Kleyn go no doubt RG would be injured and JK would be playing wonderfully somewhere else, its just our luck



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think Hodnett's first game back was that famous Wasps game with all the players missing. (Edit: just checked, he had come off the bench vs Ospreys but the Wasps game was his first start).

    Seems to have had a good injury-free run since then, thankfully, it's a shame he can't get into Ireland camp.

    I'm hoping Ahern can put an injury-free run like that together, he's been desperately unlucky with injuries an in-opportune times.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Team for tomorrow night. Possibly the strongest team we've sent up there in a a while.

    Munster: Mike Haley; Calvin Nash, Tom Farrell, Alex Nankivell, Shane Daly; Jack Crowley, Paddy Patterson; John Ryan, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Tom Ahern, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue (C), John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.

    Replacements: Eoghan Clarke, Dave Kilcoyne, Oli Jager, Evan O’Connell, Alex Kendellen, Ethan Coughlan, Rory Scannell, Brian Gleeson.

    On the injury front, Peter O’Mahony (calf) and Diarmuid Barron (shoulder) were unavailable due to the knocks they picked up in Castres.

    In line with IRFU player management guidelines, Tadhg Beirne was unavailable for selection.

    https://www.munsterrugby.ie/preview/team-news-munster-side-to-face-ulster-in-belfast/#preview



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    John Ryan at Loosehead again. Needs must, I suppose.

    Extremely light on cover in the backs, so hopefully don't pick up any injuries…. (he says in hope rather than expectation).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Ulster

    15. Michael Lowry (112)

    14. Werner Kok (9)

    13. Jude Postlethwaite (19)

    12. Stuart McCloskey (195)

    11. Zac Ward (1)

    10. Aidan Morgan (9)

    9. John Cooney (146)

    1. Andrew Warwick (203)

    2. Rob Herring (243)

    3. Tom O’Toole (114)

    4. Alan O’Connor (C) (202)

    5. Kieran Treadwell (166)

    6. James McNabney (8)

    7. Marcus Rea (53)

    8. David McCann (54)

    Replacements:

    16. John Andrew (126)

    17. Eric O’Sullivan (123)

    18. Scott Wilson (21)

    19. Harry Sheridan (34)

    20. Matty Rea (103)

    21. Dave Shanahan (96)

    22. Jack Murphy (0)

    23. Rory Telfer (1)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Feels like this could be close based on the line-ups. Jack Murphy on the bench an interesting one. McCann has been class against us in the past, big back-row battle there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭CONSI


    Crowley will have to play v Leinster aswell, with neither our other 10's even on the bench..is ben o'connor injured, as someone said our backs options are very light, do we have any wingers in the academy to call in…would dylan hicks not be an option to bring in..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    McCarthy seems to be trusted and could easily slot into the bench. O'Connor played last week for UCC but is behind McCarthy, also with Daly and Crowley in the 15 there isn't as much need for cover at fullback. 6/2 is probably a tactical decision rather than enforced by injury.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I am surprised the team is so strong. Will most of them go back to back against Leinster as well?

    Was expecting Crowley to only play one of them for example.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    We're not going 6/2 due to lack of options though. Shay McCarthy is fit and has started fairly recently.

    Burns and Butler are not on the injury list, so just haven't been selected. Scannell is on the bench ahead of either of them due to the amount of positions he can cover.

    O'Connor would be in the same boat as the two 10s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭50HX


    Good to see that team being selected, we need to come away with a win minimum.

    Dropping Coombes for Castres was obviously managing his minutes for the next block of game even if the Castres game was made for his style

    I assume we won't see JC v SP on the 27th, media will be fierce disappointed if they don't play😀

    Rest JC for 27th & then 2 week break to CC again imo would be the right call.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    Deciding to let James Cronin go must be one of Munster's biggest errors of recent years. (Was that a Van Graan special?) His performances for Leicester since joining have been consistently excellent, although he's rarely been asked to play for more than 55 minutes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭CONSI


    I think Crowley plays the 27th, he didnt play as many minutes as IRFU or Munster would have expected over AI's. 3 Games in a row isnt a big lift for a 10…what good is it if Munster play a second string V Leinster and get hockeyed on the 27th..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Scannell is on the bench ahead of either of them due to the amount of positions he can cover.

    Lets be honest, he's no jimmy obrien or Osbourne…. not good enough.

    And we have a front row, respect to the boys etc, from 1887. Archer, Kilcoyne, Ryan, Scannelll…. we are goosed in these areas…



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. When (during Covid) Munster were told to make savings on the wage bill management decided to retain the current (at the time) 43 cap Ireland international rather than the 3 cap player, who'd gotten the last of those caps 5 seasons earlier.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Who claimed he was? He's a solid option and he's on the bench tomorrow night because we went 6/2 and he's versatile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,021 ✭✭✭✭phog


    And we have a front row, respect to the boys etc, from 1887. Archer, Kilcoyne, Ryan, Scannelll…. we are goosed in these areas…

    and in the eyes of the IRFU they are somehow more valuable to Ireland than Munster being allowed sign a NIQ front row player/s



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Munster claim he is… by selecting him.

    He hasn't been versatile at this level, for many years now.

    Cork Con need a bit of a clear out unfortunately.

    #Idon'tknowifheiscorkconbutheprobablyis



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    But surely the current (at the time) capped player was on an IRFU contract so Munster wouldn't have been paying most of his wages? Plus non-capped props are available to their province more than capped players are (unless they're injured, of course!). Anyway, it's not just hindsight, many of the knowledgable Munster supporters with whom I associate were enraged at the time.



Advertisement