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Culchie etymology - many theories but I have never come across this one before.

  • 27-11-2024 03:00AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭


    I know that this has probably been done to death on this forum and elsewhere, but I have one friend that sticks to one origin that I had never heard before, nor have I heard or seen anywhere else other than from him since. The first time that I heard it from him was maybe about fifteen years ago.

    This morning a conversation about a joke came up and he mentioned it again.

    I am only curious as to this version and I am wondering if it has ever been heard by others on here before?

    The origin that he mentions is that it comes from when the Dublin people used to send their children to the country colleges or schools to be educated and 'cultured' - hence the term.

    I am two three quarters 'culchie' and more proud of it than the Dublin quarter. But I think that this version seems a little hard to believe (for me).



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,680 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I have never heard that one, but it seems very unlikely, not least because it implies a lack of 'culture'. Granted there are/were up-market boarding schools where the wealthier members of society sent their children for an education, but why would they then turn this round to suggest a lack of culture?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Bombaby1974




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭Enter Username Here


    That was pretty much my outtake on it too, as in why would it have changed so much in it's meaning. I am not sure what he replied the last time as it was such a good while ago.

    I may not have been articulate, but I do remember asking that.

    If you don't mind me asking, where are you from, or where is your father from? Not specifically, but the general area. I wonder if that version is unique to an area. I don't believe it's wrong, as we do not know from where it originates, I'm curious if different areas have different versions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,430 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Seems unlikely, because the word is documented in print from 1790, which is well before the establishment of boarding schools in Ireland to serve middle-class Catholics.

    The most widely-accepted etymology is that the word is taken from the town of Kiltimagh, in the Mayo Gaeltacht. This suggestion is reinforced by the fact that the term "culchimach" appears in Behan's Confessions of an Irish Rebel as a mildly derogatory term for Irish-speaking people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Where did the first Mullahs descend on Dublin from?

    Which provincial backwater first inflicted it's hordes on the capital to give rise to the term?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,293 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I always thought “Culchie” came from how Coillte Mach (Kiltimagh) was pronounced by locals to that area. In fact I have heard it pronounced as Culchie Maith.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,430 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Virtually the entire population of Dublin is descended from people who migrated there from other parts of Ireland. In 1841 Dublin had a population of 234,000, which was about 2.8% of the population of Ireland at that time. Now, the Dublin region holds about 30% of the population of Ireland (the whole island). Virtually all of that growth is accounted for by inward migration from other parts of Ireland. And they came from all parts of Ireland; Cork, Limerick and other cities largely attracted migrants from their own region, but Dublin drew migrants from the whole country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,680 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Agreed, my husband's family was from Kiltimagh and he spent a lot of time there in the '50s. I have heard it pronounced with an 'i' sound, but mostly with a subtle 'ui' sound that would easily be interpreted by dubs as 'uh'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,566 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I can't see how such a widely used term can come from slagging of the people of one little village in Mayo. Even if the entire town moved to Dublin it wouldn't have made a tiny dent on the population never mind becoming the word for all rural people in Dublin.

    The theory that it's people coming in from the woods makes far more sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,430 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If you regard it as a word originating in Dublin, it's very unlikely to have Irish-language roots; Dublin has really never been an Irish-speaking city; it went straight from Norse to English. Any Irish-speakers in the city were themselves recent arrivals from Gaeltacht areas; they were hardly likely to coin a degoratory term to describe themselves. Nor, it has to be said, during the period when Dublin was growing rapidly due to migration from the country - i.e. from the 1840s onwards — were people coming "from the woods"; the Irish forests had been cleared more than a century earlier. They were coming from farms.

    If the word has Irish roots, the most likely explanation is that it originated outside Dublin, was brought to Dublin and then survived in Dublin when it fell out of use elsewhere.

    But, it's still a fair question: Why Kiltimagh in particular? Well, remember that the Cromwellian settlement involved ethnically cleansing culturally Irish people from the rest of the country to Connacht? And, moreover, to rural areas of Connacht? It wasn't entire populations that were shifted; it was the class of for former landowers, leaders, chieftains, etc. The idea was that the demoralised, leaderless peasantry left behind would be more amenable to becoming good, loyal, Protestant, English-speaking tenants for their new Cromwellite landlords.

    It was at best a partial success; conversion to Protestantism did not proceed at pace and it was centuries before the language was largely eradicated in the rest of the country. But it did leave parts of Connacht as a place where a more-or-less integrated Gaelic culture (integrated in the sense that it had a leadership class as well as a peasant class) survived — in relative poverty and opression, to be sure, but it did survive. And that established rural Connacht as a place that was, culturally, fairly alien to the most Anglo parts of the country, which were the larger towns. It's not impossible that a term like "Culchie" orginated in anglified or Anglo-established garrison towns in or near north Connacht and was only later transplanted to Dublin, where in time it was broadene to include not merely people who were distinctively Gaelic, but anyone from a modest rural background.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,566 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well I don't think anyone is suggesting these people actually came from the woods.

    Coming from the woods would be a slag that those people lived in the wild.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,680 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    And there is the term 'living in the sticks' for someone living in a very rural area. Also the word used by English speakers to describe living in very rural bits of Africa, living in the 'bush'. Both used as slightly perjorative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 570 ✭✭✭eastie17


    Whatever about the origin of Culchie I think we're all clear on the origin of Jackeen. I know which I prefer to be



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,209 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the 'cúl an tí' theory is the one i think i'd have heard most often.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭styron


    Terry Dolan's dictionary

    culchie.PNG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,900 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    For many years Kiltimagh hosted the Culchie Come Home Festival which encouraged emigrants to return for a week's events.

    The festival was discontinued due to falling attendance but revived in 2016 rebranded as the Coillte Come Home Festival.

    https://kiltimagh.ie/event-listings/coillte-come-home-festival/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Bombaby1974


    My father was from Dublin. His father was from Wicklow (Manor Kilbride area)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭standardg60


    There's also the term 'backwoodsman' or coming from the back woods, cùl coillte.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭csirl


    I thought it first originated on building sites in London - as a derogatory term for labourers from Mayo. And was taken back to Ireland by returning Irish labourers?



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