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Ireland's Refugee Policy cont. Please read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    I see what you mean but I believe the two are linked. Applications currently take so long to be processed that it’s probably just easier to approve as many as possible. Being actually stricter on both seems to be the answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭NattyO


    You could be right there, but I suspect, based on what we hear about some cases, that the IPO has more than its fair share of people who, like some on this thread, believe that everyone who applies has a right to asylum, and may be inclined to "give them the benefit of the doubt" where at all possible. I doubt this will change with faster processing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭Blut2


    The idea that "international law" prevents us from reducing the numbers arriving is just not based in the real world, its an excuse trotted out to hide behind.

    Denmark brought in policies that reduced their numbers of asylum seekers arriving by 90%+, almost overnight, from 21,000 a year down to 1,500 a year.

    They did this while being party to every international law and obligation that Ireland is, and while still remaining a liberal democratic member state of the EU.

    Theres nothing stopping us from copying their policies exactly over night and achieving the same result other than the inaction of our government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    Such a high rate suggests a lack of strict controls TBH. Australia’s rate is something like 53%



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    95 percent should not be approved simple enough for you .We have a government who have allowed an uncontrolled number of funded NGO,s to lobby on asylum policy .



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I didn’t say it prevented us from doing something. I asked for an idea that didn’t contravene international law, because it’s a realistic suggestion.

    What policies should we copy?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I want them processed faster so the failed applicants can be deported earlier. Clear and simple?


    No point of having planes on stand by if they are empty.

    Hurry it all up.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 914 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    It means we are a soft-touch when it comes to implementing rigorous processes. Ireland, being so far geographically removed from the source of most if not all Asylum Seekers origins shows how much a soft-touch we are in this area. The NGOs bending the ears of gullible politicians coupled with staff scared witless to say 'no' for fear of being labeled 'racist' and other such tropes makes us a soft-touch.

    The NGOs have alot to answer for in this area and hopefully the independents elected to the Dail recently will come down hard on these NGOs who coupled with the Media have been allowed run riot on what counts as public discourse around the topic. A major culling of funding for NGOs in this sphere is urgently needed, along with much harsher laws around appeals and deportation.

    Social Cohesion is already straining from the lunacy of the last four or more years, continue on this path and major societal issues will emerge. Already the seeds are sown in many parts of the country. People warning about this can be labeled 'far-right' and all the other meaningless tropes - don't say that they didn't warn yea when it all boils over, which it will eventually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,299 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    We don't deport enough people as it is.

    Unless we increase deportations in line with speeding up processing times then I don't see what good it does.

    If anything it will encourage more people to come.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    We don’t deport them why though? If we accept them after quick processing surely they’re genuine refugees

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,299 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I'm sorry but I'm not really following your logic.

    You want more staff hired so claims can be processed quicker.

    Then they are surely genuine because they are processed quicker?

    They are processed quicker because more staff is working on them no?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    How can you not follow my logic, it's pretty simple. Once we have processed them and verify they are genuine, then they stay. Regardless of how long that takes.

    But we get to deport people quicker because the processing time is sped up.

    The problem we solve is what do with asylum seekers while they wait processing.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    I know some posters here have expressed a dislike for detention centres but surely that would be better than a field or tent in the street?

    Sorry to bring up Australia again but here’s what they do


    Under the Migration Act 1958 (Cth) (the Migration Act), asylum seekers who arrive in Australia, whether on the mainland or an 'excised offshore place', without a valid visa must be held in immigration detention until they are granted a visa or removed from Australia.

    Immigration detention in Australia is indefinite – there is no limit in law or policy to the length of time for which a person may be detained. Some asylum seekers and refugees spend long periods of time in immigration detention waiting for their refugee claim to be assessed; waiting for the completion of health, identity and security checks; or awaiting removal from Australia if they have been found not to be a refugee nor to otherwise be owed protection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    First of all I said ‘suggests’, I did not claim it as fact. No need to start demanding evidence and proof for opinions. It is my opinion and the opinion of many others that it’s a very high acceptance rate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    The NGOs bending the ears of gullible politicians coupled with staff scared witless to say 'no' for fear of being labeled 'racist' and other such tropes makes us a soft-touch.

    NNo proof of this whatsoever, why would you think staff would

    A. Be labelled as racist? Or

    B. Even care what anyone says?

    They have a job to do, reasons for.claiming asylum are outlined, people qualify as per those.reasons, or they don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,299 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I already pointed out we barely deport anyone.

    Speeding up processing times makes no difference unless we get stricter on deportations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭Blut2


    All of the policies in this list have been in place in Denmark for years now and been proven to be wildly succesful at reducing the numbers of asylum seekers arriving.

    And don't contravene international, or EU laws or obligations clearly - given Denmark has had no legal probems since implementing them that forced their stoppage. The policies are all still in place today.

    They're entirely "realistic" given they're proven effective in the real world (a reduction in arrivals of over 90%), and proven to have no legal implications in the real world. Theres absolutely nothing stopping us from copying them tomorrow:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Denmark#Features_of_the_present_Danish_asylum_system_(2023)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    It appears Australian courts don't agree with indefinite detention.

    NZYQ v Minister for Immigration, in November 2023.

    In that case, the court found the government’s indefinite immigration detention policy was unlawful because it was a form of punishment, which under the Constitution can only be imposed by courts. The ruling led to the release of 224 people from detention.

    https://theconversation.com/another-rushed-migration-bill-would-give-the-government-sweeping-powers-to-deport-potentially-thousands-of-people-243365



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭NattyO


    Well, it COULD be that Ireland has the most honest asylum seekers in the world, and only the ones that tell the truth come here, while the dishonest ones go elsewhere, but that seems somewhat unlikely. It seems far more reasonable and rational to think that maybe we're a bit of a soft touch, and it's easier to get asylum here than other countries with higher rejection rates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    Let me put it another way. Look at the leader of that department. The minister for justice and the weakest MOJ we have ever had. Do you not think it is possible that said weakness has trickled down into how the department is run? This is just an opinion and no I do not have proof



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,336 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Ireland now taking 50% more refugees then Italy. The hour is later then we think. The attitude of this new government will make or break this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    My point was not about indefinite detention, I just copied and pasted. It was that they have centres to put AS while they’re awaiting their claim to be processed. Rather than just sending them into the streets and fields



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    So you want to deport people who have genuine reason to stay? Is that what you’re saying?


    The problem now, along with the long processing times, is that we don’t deport people once their application fails. I’m in favour of doing that. I am not in favour of making the acceptance criteria more difficult

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth Randomer


    Unfortunately there is no sense of urgency about forming the cabinet coalition between parties. None whatsoever



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I have no issues with any of those policies. They all seem pretty straightforward.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 914 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    State concedes case over asylum accommodation

    Good outcome for Athlone, and a second precedent set (Dublin Airport prior). Let this be a blueprint for other communities who are not in favour of large-scale refugee accommodation being created while the government ignores development laws.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 914 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    image.png

    I am not in favour of making the acceptance criteria more difficult

    Ourselves, the Estonians and the Dutch couldn't be making it any more easier according to this chart.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,336 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    The good people of Athlone: 1 - King Rod: 0

    More of this please. The minister wouldn't support this in his own back garden and neither does the vast majority of Irish. It's clear as day this country is long past full and we shouldn't have to facilitate anybody. https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/12/16/minister-concedes-in-high-court-challenge-to-order-facilitating-asylum-seeker-housing-in-athlone/



This discussion has been closed.
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