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Forming the next Irish Government - policies and personalities

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Caquas


    No mystery. CC is the most prestigious role available to an Opposition TD. If you think the CC is "muted", you have not been watching Dáil debates.

    VM doesn't need to avoid the next election - she topped the poll and was elected on the first count.

    At the very least, her nomination gives the Independents a card to play in their negotiations with FF/FG. If she is elected CC, the role of Independents in the Dáil will be greatly boosted and FF/FG will be off to a bad start in the new Dáil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,772 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If she's elected CC, FF/FG need less Independents to form a Goverment. If one of their own is, they need more. So realistically it would improve FF/FGs hand, not worsen it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭rock22


    @expectationlost "why …. increased pay and guaranteed re-election it doesnt make sense."

    maybe because of increased pay and guaranteed re-election



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Caquas


    No, although they give that impression.

    Under Article 28.11.2,

    The members of the Government in office at the date of a dissolution of Dáil Éireann shall continue to hold office until their successors shall have been appointed.

    The issue may arise next Wednesday because Art. 28.10 states:

    The Taoiseach shall resign from office upon his ceasing to retain the support of a majority in Dáil Éireann unless on his advice the President dissolves Dáil Éireann and on the reassembly of Dáil Éireann after the dissolution the Taoiseach secures the support of a majority in Dáil Éireann.

    In effect, because Simon Harris will not have the support of a majority in the new Dáil to continue as Taoiseach, he must then go to the Áras and resign (but won't ask the President for a new election). Then Art. 28.11.1 kicks in:

    If the Taoiseach at any time resigns from office the other members of the Government shall be deemed also to have resigned from office, but the Taoiseach and the other members of the Government shall continue to carry on their duties until their successors shall have been appointed.

    This post-resignation Government is sometimes called a "caretaker government" but it is better described as an "acting Government" i.e. it has full powers but lacks a democratic mandate. That is why SH and MM are so relaxed about letting the coalition negotiations run into next year - they will still be in power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Because column inches need to be filled, clicks need to be baited

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,667 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If she is elected CC, FF and FG need one less TD to get a majority.

    There are a 174 TDs in the Dail, you need 88 for a majority if one of your TDs is elected CC, leaving you with 87 and the opposition with 86. However, if you elect one of the opposition as CC, you only need 87 TDs in total.

    John O'Connell was elected CC on this basis. For FG, seeing Verona Murphy elected takes her off their back as a disgruntled former member and gives them a chance to win a seat next time out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,772 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Also, de-heading the Wexford Independent Alliance for five years will help trying to claw local seats back off them. FF lost 3 and FG 1 in June.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Dunmoreroader


    I hope the Independent group put Decentralisation on the table in negotiations with FFG. We have the most centralised government in the EU 27, bar none;

    https://portal.cor.europa.eu/divisionpowers/Pages/Decentralization-Index.aspx

    It's part of the reason why voters have been electing more and more Independent TD's.

    Apart from in Waterford where we managed to vote out our Independent, Shanahan, just as the group he is part of gain clout. Go figure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I heard that in campaigning for the general election Shanahan projected a message in support for himself onto the walls of the local hospice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Caquas


    FF/FG may be willing to sacrifice the CC role in order to get closer to a majority and they certainly don't want to get further from a majority by letting SO'F grab another term. But in that case, they should give the Chair to an Opposition TD who would otherwise reliably vote against the government e.g. someone from Labour or SDs (now that we are past the play-acting about either party going into coalition).

    The votes of VM and other Independents can be had for a much lower price and without a humiliation on Day One for FF/FG. Of course, the Independents will want seat(s) at Cabinet whether or not VM gets to be CC.

    Let's see if FF/FG can actually control their TDs in a secret ballot.I think some FG TDs would be happy to send a message to their party leadership by voting for VM who is closer to FG values than some in the party leadership. A lot of FG TDs are as disenchanted after the election with "new energy" Simon as their former colleagues were with Leo, who both lead the party to humiliating defeats but got away with it. How many jobs will Simon secure for FG when FF have 10 more TDs?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,744 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    The Ceann Comhairle is by tradition precluded from active participation in politics but remains free to make representations on behalf of constituents.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/office-holders/ceann-comhairle/

    no participation in Debates, Topical Issues or Oral Questions, no media appearances on topical national issues. Muted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Caquas




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Ahh Pearse with the faux outrage display

    What topic this time? nobody knows its the same reaction everytime

    Hold on till I get a warm milk and fall asleep



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Caquas


    There'll be plenty more outrage where that came from in the next Dáil but will the CC take the same robust approach to it? Aonghus O Snodaigh certainly wouldn't and he would give the lie to the notion of a "muted" CC.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    All the more reason to have the CC elected as the last act before the Dail id dissolved.

    That way, it does not become part of Gov formation, and the unseemly horse trading. Nor does it give one constituency a reduced representation by only allowing one less TD than would otherwise be elected.

    It is a nice little earner for one lucky TD - over a €1 million over the 5 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    They'd find it a lot easier to grow if they had $1000 a plate dinners in New York

    Run that by SIPO

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That's not fair on the outgoing CC who served for up to 5 years and was unable to engage in normal politics and serve his/her constituency during that time. That's why the outgoing CC gets automatic re-election.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, I would expect the outgoing CC to be re-elected or to retire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Agree with first second paragraph.

    The really bad actors aren't there for likes, or shíts and giggles - they're either monetizing it (Alex Jones) or are funded by nation states seeking to destroy Western democracy.

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Michael Woods was able to soak the taxpayer for a >€1bn paedophile bailout in an interregnum. No Dail vote, no Cabinet decision. Opus Dei how are ya. No doubt he's certain he'll get his eternal reward for that decision.

    But no there are no constitutional restrictions apart from not being able to pass any legislation. Ministers can do a surprising amount with statutory orders though (see above)

    In our neighbour to the east, Parliament is really only a courtesy - the monarch can basically do anything with Orders in Council, including launching Tridents with no democratic input.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Riiiight

    We voted to destroy local government in 1977 and have strongly opposed every measure since then to give local government any power.

    Decentralisation, wha?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It still makes no sense that an assembly should have their chairperson elected by a previous assembly.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,479 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    When will SF realise that when Pearse starts shouting, non-nordie voters switch off.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Was at a local panto last night

    Was excellent but a joke in the middle was something along the lines of

    "Oh wait till you see what I done to that witch MLMD"

    Good laughter response but was followed with

    "Oh I don't think I can say that or she will sue me"

    Place in knots

    Between Pearse and MLMD they are now the running joke in panto's. Its 4 years of the both of them been shoved in our face on every topic from SF, it's not working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,557 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Seems Brand Harris is failing to inspire even the faithful.

    A spectacular fall in popularity all round.

    I suspect we will see him bunkered for a while when the new government is formed, he's been quiet publicly since the election.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 11,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    On the contrary it is the responsibility of all parties to attempt to get the policies they stood for implemented. A failure to do so sends a very clear message to the voters - these people are not interested in going anything for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,557 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I reckon most of the electorate know this is just political manoeuvring around a pre-ordained outcome. Shadow boxing and point scoring.
    Bored of it already, like most as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,303 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    It is. But if you have 10 or 11 seats but the 2 main parties only need 2 to get to a majority, you have no bargaining power. It's better in that situation to consolidate and build for the next election and aim to have a bigger chunk of votes to get policies implemented.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,667 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Who are the disenchanted FG TDs?

    Most of them have been elected for the first time this election so have hardly any time to be disenchanted.

    I think you are making that up out of hope.

    The word is that CC will be the Cabinet seat, and that the Independents will only get Junior Ministries.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It makes the same amount of sense having the last act of an outgoing Dail elect the CC, as getting the first act of the incoming one to elect the CC.

    At least the outgoing one knows who the are electing, and what the CC is responsible for. But the incoming one contains new TDs who might not know anything about the duties of the CC.

    I bet most do not know the the expensive bicycle shed approval was on the desk of the CC.



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