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US Healthcare CEO Murdered - Please read mod note at OP

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,296 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You don't spill blue blood in the US of A and get away with it.

    That's their problem. They knew what they were voting for so they can eat it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    If he wanted to get caught why did he wear a mask and try to escape?

    He will have his 15 minutes of fame in the court case and then fade into obscurity.

    I do hope someone like bernie Sanders comes along and sorts out the health insurance industry over there but I doubt it with the amount of politicians the industry seems to have bought.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,296 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He probably knew he'd get caught so he'd nothing to lose by trying to escape.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,872 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If he wanted to get caught why did he wear a mask and try to escape?

    He wasn't great at wearing the mask, was he?

    The time it took in tracking him down allowed him to achieve folk hero status.

    Mission accomplished. If you look at his demeanour before, during and after the murder he was full on enjoying himself, not a care in the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,872 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Unless there is contagion. But even then slim chance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,275 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    You're confused: the victim was of working class/lower middle class origins who worked his way up. The murderer is the "blue blood" - from one of the "first families" in the state, according to the BBC this morning.

    We'll see how it plays out.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,072 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Not sure about the 15 mins. Being pissed at healthcare insurers is the one thing that probably unites the US.

    I have a friend in the US. Her husband has terminal cancer. She quit her job to be with him. Her healthcare covered him while she was working. She still paid in the high tens of thousands in deductibles in that. The insurance lasted for something like 6 months after she quit. Then it rolled over to medicare. And she had to start filing all the different treatments and stuff with a different group. And the deductibles grew.

    He's still alive. He's still terminal. And at the end of it all, he'll die and she'll have to live with the debt. The other option is to refuse life extending and quality of life treatment and die sooner.

    They are both IT professionals and had good jobs.

    The USA sucks if you're sick. It especially sucks if your poor and sick. The best change they've had is Obamacare. And even under that, it still sucks. And even Obamacare was an effort to get through. And half the country want to get rid of it.

    But they all hate insurers. Unless you're filthy rich, getting sick is costly and they have to fight with insurers to get basic treatments paid for. It can cost 18,000 to give birth, and thats WITH insurance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,142 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    If anything he'll make it worse. He seems to have the horn for repealing the ACA for no other reason than because Obama brought it in. He'll likely face resistance there though because it's got something like a 60% approval rating so cuts across partisan lines.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,296 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Jesus, that's heartbreaking.

    I don't remember when it happened but when I was in my early twenties, I was obsessed with moving there. Now, I've never visited and never want to. Looks like a horrible country for anyone who isn't loaded. I always assumed that health insurance just did the same as the UK NHS, albeit to a much higher standard. Obviously, that's ridiculous.

    There seems to be this weird taboo where US popular culture is obsessed with making everyone out to be loaded, even if they're unemployed. You never see TV programs depict difficulties accessing healthcare, police brutality, etc. Seems awfully stunted in some cultural aspects.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    If he is found guilty he will be incarcerated for the rest of his life and people will lose interest. Even killers of famous people like the killer of John Lennon only get in the news when their parole is revoked.

    Definitely an evil industry but its protected by politicians. Just look at senator Rick Scott over there, a successful senator after defrauding Medicare for years.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,077 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    You never see TV programs depict difficulties accessing healthcare, police brutality, etc.

    because most people aren't entertained by that.

    maybe a sixth series of 'the wire', about healthcare, might have been in order!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,140 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Do people actually think Thompson is some kind of poor kid that done good kind of a guy, he got to a top poistion in one of the most toxic, money grabbing, ruthless industries out threre. There is no doubt he was an absolute piece of **** of a man who had blood on his hands. This is why people could not care about him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,342 ✭✭✭yagan


    Isn't Breaking Bad about a guy turning to illegal drug making to access cancer treatment?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I wonder will Mangione fall into obscurity? He's obviously seen as a folk hero by a lot of people. If he can write a book from prison it could be a launching pad for a major campaign against an industry that people there seem to widely believe is rotten.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,872 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I wonder will Mangione fall into obscurity?

    Well yeah obviously.

    CEOs are 10 a penny.

    If you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you the name of the lad who shot Trumps ear lobe.

    I suppose the danger is and maybe the goal is there is contagion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,527 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The chap is nothing but an out and out scumbag to do what he did. He deserves the death penalty, and failing that (not sure Penn) has the death penalty, he deserves 100 years sentence….just to be sure

    Its scary that people want to portray this cap as a hero….he's an absolute menace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,342 ✭✭✭yagan


    I wonder if he didn't care if he got caught. The preparation was deliberate, inscribing shell casing with a message, 3d printing a ghost gun etc… A paid assassin would be laying low, will have disposed of all evidence tying him to the crime and would be staying away from the likes of McDonalds while growing a beard.

    Perhaps he's ok with getting caught because now he'll be able to explain his motivation in court, and so far the initial reaction has been more critical of healthcare profiteering than an actual broad daylight murder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    its new yark lad, it doesnt have the death penalty because its not a backward hole

    and anyone calling for the death penalty is just that

    what he has been charged doesn't automatically come with a life sentance

    the lad he shot was a scumbag

    the public reaction isn't wrong



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,274 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    The Saw horror series aswell. At least the ones focused on Tobin Bell's John Kramer.

    Hell one of them (the one with the Shotgun Carosel) actually has the CEO of an insurance company going through the traps and getting to choose who lives and who dies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,979 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    As I said in the other thread, there was no execution in that case. Non whatsoever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Oh, I'd say meaningful change could happen under Trump - just not in the direction that would benefit the majority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Is that really the right reaction?

    He should be tried for his crimes and should see whatever the appropriate sentence is. Bringing the hammer down harder on him just reinforces the idea that justice, like health and pretty much everything else, is only for the rich in the US - and could cause further unrest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,979 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    This guys is a poor man's Unibomber. No one will remember him in a years time. Yet, he is going to spend the next 60+ years in jail. What a waste.

    Some people are just stupid!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    chicago hope, er, US shameless, all dealt with Medical costs inability to get treatment

    I'm sure others have



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,481 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Well we don't understand his motivations yet. I will suspend my own judgement until then, mostly because he is objectively a smart guy, so there must be some back story. I wonder was he staring at a lifetime of opioid addiction or something due to health issues or was it more personal, did he actually personally know the CEO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,010 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    To access better cancer treatment. The character was a school teacher and had access to treatment, just not the best treatment which wouldn't take his insurance so he had to pay hundreds of thousands of $$. A very American story - you'll get some access, just the better access costs more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    he had stage 3 lung cancer too, a death sentence, basically he was looking at 5 years max, even with treatment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,342 ✭✭✭yagan


    People have already forgotten the CEOs name, but interestingly the trial may become memorable if the killer was motivated by healthcare iniquities.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭aero2k


    To the people making the argument that the shooter had to kill the CEO to get justice, I'd argue that killing him prevented justice, where his and his company's misdeeds could be examined in court and an appropriate punishment applied. That would also have brought a spotlight on other companies, and perhaps some public outcry for change. Now maybe this murder case will bring about something like that, but I'm not so sure.

    I mentioned earlier in the thread how things started to get bad in the 80's with exponential increases in CEO remuneration, but some people have always placed profit ahead of human life. The case of the Ford Pinto in the 70's is one such example: Ford had done 40 crash tests and in every one above 25mph the fuel tank exploded. They went ahead and sold the car anyway, after calculating that the total cost of paying claims for injured / dead people was less than fixing the problem (approx. $8 per car).

    And whatever about the legality or otherwise of this sort of behaviour, what about the morality? The medical device companies I've worked for have all been sued for injuries to patients. Most big pharma companies have had multi $B awards against them. I believe most large organisations are prone to becoming corrupt - not in the sense of bribery & corruption, but in how they drift away from the ideals and integrity that may have been there at the beginning. It's incredibly difficult to get 10's of 10,000's of employees to behave correctly - many will do the wrong thing out of fear or ignorance rather than purely for personal gain. I began my own personal boycott of Amazon a few years ago when I heard about how they threat their warehouse operatives, and despite a few near misses I've managed to stick to it, though Jeff Bezos doesn't seem too bothered. And in that time, I've acquired a mountain of stuff from the middle aisle, presumably made by workers who were being exploited in some way or another. And staying out of the middle aisle doesn't guarantee moral purity either - I was very disappointed when unboxing a once in a lifetime purchase of a German brand item, to see in tiny print on the label "made in China".

    The only conclusion I can come to is that things are this way because that's the way we want them - as volchitsa has pointed out above.

    ps: If you like a bit of black humour, the linked article contains this gem:

    Ford's radio spots had included the line: "Pinto leaves you with that warm feeling." Ford’s advertising agency, J. Walter Thompson, dropped that line.



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