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US Healthcare CEO Murdered - Please read mod note at OP

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Comments

  • #362
    reclose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 832 ✭✭✭reclose


    What should be the correct action for CEOs of companies like United Healthcare who are treating people who need healthcare so poorly?



  • #363
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,011 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941595#Comment_122941595

    If they've broken the law, try them, if guilty, convictions. Just like what happened with Enron.

    As for their companies, sue them (much harder these days, class actions were defanged by John Robert's court). Lawsuit should include sanctions on their BOT members that let this happen - like, keep them from any other BOTs. This, too, has happened in the past.

    If companies are people, why not a death penalty for them?



  • #364
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,013 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941595#Comment_122941595

    Tighter laws and greater enforcement, both of which the American people rejected in their recent elections.



  • #365
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,011 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941594#Comment_122941594

    And yet, that OB/GYN is still working. And as always with the HSE, no consequences. This is because the HSE polices itself.



  • #366
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭Feisar


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122940179#Comment_122940179

    Agreed and that CEO went out onto that slippery slope and look where he ended up.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • #367
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,671 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941586#Comment_122941586

    The slippery slope slides both ways too. With for profit healthcare, first its justified as a small private GP practise, then its a HMO, then its a mutual society to help spread the cost of care, then as profit gets embedded in the system, the mutuals get bought out, consolidated, corporate structures drive the need for more and more 'efficiency', lobbyists from bigger and more powerful companies corrupt the politicians and reduce regulations so that the private insurance industry becomes essentially unregulated, and we end up with the current system of legalised for profit manslaughter and theft on an industrial scale. Hospitals and care facilities competing to rip off insurance policies for unnecessary treatments, while insurance policies try to claw back claims from patients, with the poor bastards in the middle, the sick and the vulnerable getting screwed from both directions.

    This is the slippery slope of naked capitalism with full regulatory capture that we don't need to speculate over, because the US has already fallen down that slope and the events of this week won't even slow down the continued descent as the new CEO will be just as monstrous as the last

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #368
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,671 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941595#Comment_122941595

    What should happen is so utterly unrealistic that it is understandable why people are fantasizing about vigilante justice.

    The FBI should raid these companies and prosecute them for conspiracy to defraud and for manslaughter. There is plenty of evidence that these companies are prepared to allow people to die by refusing legitimate claims and whatever number of claims do get appealed, will cost less than those who just give up or cant afford to challenge them

    But thats fantasy, especially in Trump's America (although the dems are just as craven as he is on this)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #369
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,072 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941608#Comment_122941608

    The doctor followed the protocol that was set by the HSE and the laws of the state that forbid certain treatment options.

    However I will agree that the HSE was at fault. I mentioned two deaths. That's because in Dundalk (Possibly drogheda, I always get them mixed up) two years before hand the exact same scenario happened. There was a full HIQA investigation and corrective measures were brought in. But they were were only implemented in Dundalk. If they'd been implemented nationwide, then Savita might still be alive. This was highlighted in the second HIQA report, the one that dealt with Savita.

    You can compare the HSE to the US CEO but there's three important differences.

    1. The HSE's actions weren't deliberate. They were incompetence. They never made a decision in the full knowledge that someone would die and decided that it was worth that persons death.
    2. Change happened. A person died and there was a massive amount of change that happened. It's still not perfect, but change occurred.
    3. The volume. I mentioned a figure earlier in the thread. Apparently 68,000 people die each year due to insurance denials and nothing happens. In Ireland two people died and we saw changes to processes, protocols and to our constitution.

    Do I think the HSE should be held responsible foir their failures? Yes. Definitely. But there isn't really a comparison to be mede between what's happening in the US, which is the deliberate sacrifice of tens of thousands of patients for profit, with ireland, where bad management results in the tragic deaths of some people.



  • #370
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,872 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122940844#Comment_122940844

    Well no. He doesn't get nearly a weeks long attention and everything that comes with it if he does that.



  • #371
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,953 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    From Grayson,Post 369, worth repeating, in bold for the hard of hearing

    Do I think the HSE should be held responsible foir their failures? Yes.

    Definitely. But there isn't really a comparison to be mede between what's happening in the US, which is the deliberate sacrifice of tens of thousands of patients for profit, with ireland, where bad management results in the tragic deaths of some people.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • #372
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,142 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941669#Comment_122941669

    Naw, his pic was plastered everywhere, he made no attempt to alter his appearance. It was only a matter of time before he was spotted if he didn't skip the country. There was no grand plan here.



  • #373
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I doubt the health insurance industry will change at all in the US because of this killing especially the company involved. Too much money seems to be involved in the industry.



  • #374
    FaganJr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941145#Comment_122941145

    He told the McDonalds worker to turn him in for the Reward! So yeah!



  • #375
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,979 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941577#Comment_122941577

    I am drawing a parallel between the two systems.

    If this CEO is scum, a parasite or a terrible human, then I am guessing the upper echelons of the HSE are also scum and parasites..



  • #376
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,527 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941518#Comment_122941518

    The rule is you can say whatever you like about America, but you can't say anything about Ireland.



  • #377
    FaganJr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941779#Comment_122941779

    Yes welcome to the wake up call! This shouldn't be happening anywhere in my opinion!



  • #378
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,872 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941728#Comment_122941728

    Exactly. Getting caught is part of the narrative he wants.



  • #379
    McFly85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭McFly85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941779#Comment_122941779

    You’re trying to draw a parallel with 2 things that aren’t parallel to eachother.

    The HSE aren’t denying swathes of the public service purely to enrich the executive level. They’re not taking money from customers and giving nothing in return.

    That’s the key thing why people have no remorse for this person. He has gotten rich on the back of denying care to paying customers. He has caused thousands of people who thought they were covered anguish and pain to increase company profits. There is no comparison between UnitedHealth and the HSE. One is in the business of health, the other is in the business of profit.



  • #380
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,278 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941779#Comment_122941779

    They are perpendicular not parallel. Thats your problem.



  • #381
    FaganJr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941837#Comment_122941837

    One is in the business of health, Which is failing it's people, us

    The other is in the business of profit, which is failing it's people, them

    Parrallel!



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  • #382
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,142 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941815#Comment_122941815

    Whatever you think yourself.

    He's just not terribly street smart



  • #383
    Dogsdodogsstuff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Dogsdodogsstuff


    I will cavaet what I’m saying , by clarifying im speaking from a philosophical point of view, not an emotional one which tends to drive these topics. I’m not condoning people going around killing people, but I’m wondering moreso at what stage can people ignore the inequality of rich v poor when it comes to ramifications for one’s actions.

    Only thing that surprises me is how long it’s taken for somebody to snap and hit back at rampant corruption within capitalism at the highest levels. The banking crisis of 2007 was the first time I thought “what , so bank directors get to just move onto different banks , that’s their punishment for nearly collapsing the entire financial system we all rely on?”.


    My first instinct when I heard some of the story was to wonder why the person might of felt so strongly that they had to kill the CEO. What happened ? Like, if your mother, father , child died a painful death because an unscrupulous insurance company (that has form at doing this) weaseled out on care , can’t we all relate to that ?

    I’d say even people who are taking a holier then thou approach (you can’t just kill people) suspect there was some nasty stuff going on that triggered the attack. It’s interesting what your first reaction to this story is, it’s interesting how much resources have been put into catch the killer and it’s interesting how much coverage it’s getting.


    For me, the narrative should not be about “nobody should be shooting anybody”, the discussion should be on why it happened. But the system and those who don’t really want to address the issues, will be protected with a “the shooter was a bad man, look at the poor CEO just doing his job”.

    I’d say somebody feeling like they have to shoot a CEO to get justice and many many people applauding them is more a reflection on how dysfunctional things have been allowed to get then the individual themselves.

    I think this is tangent or somewhat on the same lines as the rise of the far right. People are turning to alternative ways to either get heard or what they feel is justice. Doing what democrats have been doing and lecturing them on why they are wrong is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending the world is grand as is and people need to just eat sh*t and get on with it.



  • #384
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,013 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941736#Comment_122941736

    All that will happen is the insurance companies will spend more on security for their employees, the cost of which will be passed to the consumer in higher premiums.

    But look, this is what American people want.



  • #385
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,872 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941861#Comment_122941861

    I don't see how "street smart" has anything to do with it.

    Like I said if his plan was to put the insurance industry on trial then getting caught is integral to that.

    Listen, he could also be an entitled rich kid who is dangerously stupid.

    I suppose we will find out soon enough.



  • #386
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,669 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    How long before we start seeing copycats? One would have to assume Mangione did what he did in the hope of being the spark to inspire others to follow his lead and given the state of US Politics with a bi-partisan system where the "party of the left" is in the pocket of big corporations a violent uprising doesn't seem all that surprising and IMHO, may not prove to be a bad thing in the long run.

    For most people, human life only has inherrant value because they subscribe to one collections of superstitions or another that society has elevated to an illogical status under the brand of "religious beliefs". In reality some lives have a negative impact on broader society and the world is a better place without them.

    Boards.ie need your help to survive, subscribe here



  • #387
    crusd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭crusd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122940641#Comment_122940641

    The facts dont match your assertion - life expectancy here is 3 years more than the US and is higher here than most European countries - exceptions being Spain, France, italy, Switzerland, Sweden and Norway. There are massive inefficiencies in access to healthcare here but once in the system outcomes are better than most. Its an inconvenient truth that people who say Ireland is a shithole just dont want to hear.

    One such statistic is that cancer mortality rates are lower here than much of Europe. We are among the worst for breast cancer though



  • #388
    Dogsdodogsstuff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Dogsdodogsstuff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941879#Comment_122941879

    Would be ironic and sumptuously emblematic of capitalistic USA if the killer was a rich kid and his family got him off.



  • #389
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,872 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122941891#Comment_122941891

    I don't see why not.

    Executing someone on camera doesn't automatically translate to incarceration. Most recent example.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2024/1209/1485559-daniel-penny/



  • #390
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,079 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    whatever change there is of anything approaching meaningful change in the healthcare industry - it's not going to happen under trump.



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  • #391
    yagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,342 ✭✭✭yagan


    If he really wanted to remain uncaught then they would have disposed of the weapon pronto, even leaving it at the scene considering the trouble he went to leaving messages on the casings, and staying out of public view for a few months growing a beard.

    Perhaps he's ok with getting caught, because now his motivation will be heard in court which will stoke the debate even more.



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