Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

The "separatists" that fought in Donbas in 2014 instigated the violence and were supported, funded and armed by Russia. They were widely unpopular in the region, one where there was little history of violence. People in Donbas expressed interest in some autonomy, but were against Kremlin control.

Russian propaganda attempted to paint the separatists as victims and Moscow's proxy war as an "uprising". You are repeating that propaganda.

Speaking of disinformation did anyone see the article from the daily mail this week about those sneeky North Koreans that had to be quickly taken down and apologised for.

Supposedly they were being used as canon fodder, but in fact the image was taken from a previous TV interview of a pair of 17 year old twins who enlisted into the DPR in Donetsk. It's amazing what people fall for honestly, the latest one is that China have provided 12,000 stealth uniforms for testing that avoid those wearing them being visible. They seem to be working grand to be fair.

Big uptick on captured territory this last month with just under 300 Sq.miles taken compared to October.

A big uptick of 30% on the amount of casualties reported by the Russian defense ministry in November, difficult to see how both sides come up with these exact numbers really and best ignored IMO.

Never seen you tackle any of the pro-Russian disinformation posted here.

On the contrary these posts are always about Russian gains or setbacks for Ukraine.

Strange way to express "concern" for Ukraine.

The territory losses are correct but it i think the casualties numbers will come out in the end. Even Zelensky this week was disputing the losses this week saying that 80K losses over nearly 3 years were far too high. Given the Russians are now dropping nearly 5K guided FAB's a month on pre-determined high value targets it is impossible to say how many people were injured inside those buildings.

When these "militias" shot down a Ukrainian transport flying at altitude, I remember the excuse was that they "found" that type of weaponry at military bases, and some of them were ex-military and happened to be able to use it

Russia supported these "separatists" with tanks and military equipment and small arms moved across the border. They were trained by Russian advisors. Russian special forces, FSB and Russian troops were embedded with them. They got specialist equipment directly from Russia, a notorious example being the Buk that shot down MH17, which was driven back across the border.

Their finances were covered by Russia.

All of this was cloak and dagger, but when they were pushed back, then pretences were dropped and Russian forces were in direct combat with Ukrainian military.

It was a proxy invasion of Donbas by Russia using "separatists" as cover.

It's amusing to see someone repeat the Kremlin script so diligently.

Speaking of proxies did you see the interview with former British PM Boris Johnson this week ? It was on video and in the paper, surprised no one has mentioned it here yet for some reason. No doubt in the past people would of been called a Russian propagandist or something for even muttering such words.

According to the Telegraph interview "Let's face it... We're waging a proxy war, but we're not giving our proxies the ability to do the job and it has been cruel." – Boris Johnson

Such a tragedy to see what Mearsheimer said in 2016 come to fruition " we are leading Ukraine down the path to total destruction "

BBC reports from the time (April 2014) don't really reflect your claims though.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27035196

The launch of the ATO is described as being against pro-Russian separatists, terrorists and rebels. Not against Russian military - which are only mentioned as being on the border, outside Ukraine.

So who was the ATO targeting - protestors:

The BBC's Gabriel Gatehouse in Kramatorsk reported that an angry crowd gathered outside the airbase, prompted by the arrival of two helicopters carrying soldiers they said had come from Kiev.

A crowd of some 200 people remained on Tuesday evening, chanting slogans in favour of a referendum on the region's future, our correspondent adds.

The BBC report includes videos of ordinary people - not soldiers - confronting tanks which were sent against them.

A second video shows Ukrainian troops manning a checkpoint, which the BBC reporter is at pains to point out is loyal to the new regime, and marks a change from pro-Russian rebels/militia manning checkpoints in the same place.

Third video shows a BBC reporter interviewing protestors in Mariupol - again, practically all ordinary people. No Russian soldiers in sight.

All the indications are the militias in Donbass derived from the people in the Donbass. And this raises a particular question - lets say by some miracle Ukraine sweeps Russian forces out of Ukraine and recovers its 1991 borders. What is it going to do with the ethnic Russian people who live there? How can they ever hope to reintegrate them after 10 years of bitter fighting?

Hope you are right. I would say he will never "hitch his wagon" to Ukraine, his opinions are set IMO and he hates Zelenskyy and Ukraine even if the bloom ever came off Putin as a strongman figure he admires.

If he can be inveigled not to remove the US support in full, or actively undermine the support of Ukraine by others; e.g. allow US MIC and US military in Europe continue to do their thing and deliver weapons (that a combo of Ukraine/the EU/UK etc. will likely foot the bill for somehow later), that may be enough and is the best outcome I see a chance for when he takes office.

Nothing from the comrades for a day or two, then 2 suddenly pop up at same time

How does it work i wonder, Ivan coffee breaks over lets hit boards ie

Edit:

$988m package announced

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3989537/biden-administration-announces-new-security-assistance-package-for-ukraine/

Didn't you spend ages downplaying the fact Russia are engaging in ethnic cleansing? When challenged in detail on it with plenty of detail, you mysteriously disappeared from the thread for a few days.