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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • #39902
    Ben Bailey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907574#Comment_122907574

    Appeal to authority;

    'However, in particular circumstances, it is sound to use as a practical although fallible way of obtaining information that can be considered generally likely to be correct if the authority is a real and pertinent intellectual authority and there is universal consensus about these statements in this field'.

    So to counter this argument you should produce evidence that the opinion is either false or not generally held. Clo Clo argues that it is generally held that Prendergast is highly thought of generally, not just by Leinster fans. Dismissing this as an 'appeal to authority' without evidence to the contrary is weak.



  • #39903
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907601#Comment_122907601

    I said a specific thing.

    He looks noticeably unathletic. That I can't remember any top class 10 who looked like that at 21.

    And you think 'well everyone else thinks he's great' (without any evidence of that by the way, we know he is rated in ireland, we have no idea what anyone else thinks) is a good rebuttal to that specific point?



  • #39904
    Ben Bailey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907616#Comment_122907616

    You replied to Clo Clo

    Not mine.

    All I said was that your argument contering his opinion was weak.



  • #39905
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907644#Comment_122907644

    Well, you are both more evasive than prendergast is, i'll give you that.



  • #39906
    Ben Bailey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907454#Comment_122907454
    Cian Healy: A career in numbers . . . so far

    Ireland: 133 caps (currently joint highest with Brian O’Driscoll and 10th highest in world rugby). Debut v Australia, Croke Park, November 2009, 20-20 draw).

    Leinster: 282 appearances (a record). Debut v Border Reivers, May 2007.

    Champions Cup appearances: 112 (a record).

    Honours

    5 Six Nations titles, including two Grand Slams – 2014, 2015, 2018 (Grand Slam), 2023 (Grand Slam), 2024.

    4 Champions Cups – (2008-09, 2010-11, 2011-12, 2017-18).

    1 Challenge Cup – (2012-13).

    7 Pro12/14/URC titles – (2007-08, 2012-13, 2013-14, 2017-18, 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21).

    Leinster Schools Senior Cup winner (2005).



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  • #39907
    shootermacg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Mod Edit: Warning.

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • #39908
    ersatz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122906665#Comment_122906665

    Crowley was on the bench and sent out to do media duties, same as sometimes in training he’s asked to hold tackle bags instead of running the attack. If he responds to that the way some posters are responding, by sulking and giving out shite about the injustice of it, then the coach sees very clearly that he’s not up to the job and needs to go away and mature a bit before he’s ready for the big time. I doubt very much Crowley mistook what was happening for anything except Farrell running the rule over players and using games to see where people stood. He learned a lot about prendergast by doing it.



  • #39909
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907718#Comment_122907718

    Its actually reasonably unusual to do media and not start. Especially with all the talk, it was genuinely kind of a weird move.



  • #39910
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,865 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122906636#Comment_122906636

    Yes. 1000%. I desperately hope he starts every game of consequence for Leinster moving forward as he is clearly our best 10.



  • #39911
    ersatz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭ersatz


    @ulsteru20s

    didn’t murray do media a few years ago when he wasn’t selected?


    but which is more likely, that Farrell is playing mind games or that he separates out those duties as unrelated to each other. Ppl love conspiracy theories.



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  • #39912
    shootermacg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907718#Comment_122907718

    Mod: Warning.

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • #39913
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,865 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I've only skimmed the thread but on the game in general…

    I thought Prendergast was decent to good. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping he would take the chance a bit better. His range of passing is still excellent, his kicking is excellent but his defence needs work - too often he tries to tackle around the legs and just falls off. That being said he had some good interventions. He is a capable runner and needs to recognise when to use that more - this will only come with much more game time and I hope Leo recognises this and puts him at 10 as he is very obviously the best 10 available to Leinster as far as I'm concerned.

    I thought JGP was off base all game and I would have liked to see Casey come on earlier and he made an immediate impact. In my mind you are either an organisational 9 or a quick 9 and JGP was neither today. Casey was a bit helter skelter but at least he was quick about it.

    The biggest issues by far were in the pack and with the handling. Lowe had at least three terrible passes when put into a good position and the pack were either dropping ball or under-resourcing rucks all night. They were also being ran through on the fringes of the ruck with the ridiculous frequency. It is impossible to beat anyone when you just can't keep hold of the ball.

    Crowley did well when he came on. I'm more bullish on him starting the 6N than I was yesterday (and I thought he was 60% yesterday) but I still think the European games will play a big part in the decision.

    The bench did better than I expected, especially POM but he's just not a long term solution. I would like to see Beirne back to second row with Ryan with McCarthy as the impact sub. Bring Izuchukwu or Prendergast (the former for me) in to start at 6. Murray should be done. Ideally Healy should be done. That is the weakest I've seen our back 3 in a long time - I think Osborne would put them under pressure. I thought Hansen was the best of them which somewhat rules out Nash but Stockdale could take Lowe's place, albeit I think it is unlikely.

    One massive, massive caveat I would say is that everyone though Farrell would continue on from Joe and he didn't. He changed things a lot. And I think Easterby might take his chance to do the same.



  • #39914
    ersatz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I haven’t seen a count but from my recollection we’ve scored very few tries from open play this autumn, none today and most last week were off set piece. This is also a bit anxiety inducing.



  • #39915
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907743#Comment_122907743

    i think it was probably a mistake but not one that should have happened with a young player under pressure.

    Edit: it was a pretty bad mistake. Guys who do the press conference but won't start are firstly rare, and secondly normally like veterans. I can't remember young guy in a very public competition for their place being put in this kind of position. Its a really **** mistake.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • #39916
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907699#Comment_122907699

    Mod: Warning.

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • #39917
    TomsOnTheRoof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907801#Comment_122907801

    The real test will be whether he can finally lead Leinster to some silverware.



  • #39918
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907825#Comment_122907825

    No lie detected



  • #39919
    mun1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭mun1


    a lot of dissappointed people on here tonight. Ireland did win, didnt they ?

    Takeaways to finish this thread up :

    We didnt develop any options in a number of positions, 1, 6, 8, 9, 12, 11, 14, 15. Maybe this was down to injuries but we still had squad of 25 to work with.

    Disappointed that we didn’t see more of Casey , Izzy, Timony, Prendergast (the older ), Nash, stockdale, Osborne, O’toole, Frawley (even at FB or 12)

    Our strength in dept at international level isn’t what we think it is.

    Great to see Healy get the record , well deserved. A true gentle giant.

    SP will keep Crowley on his toes, and vice versa

    POM still has bit of life in him, wonder will we see him stay on for 6N.

    For ireland to be successful needs more than one province to be strong , and its not leinsters fault that the others aren’t pulling their weight but the IRFU needs to review structures to maximise their players gametime.

    Most important block of fixtures coming up for all our provinces, season defining for all, best of luck to everyone.



  • #39920
    El Vino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 397 ✭✭El Vino


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907450#Comment_122907450

    I’m delighted for him but part of me is sad that BOD is no longer our record capped player, first choice right to the end and a transformative player for Irish rugby.



  • #39921
    shootermacg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907801#Comment_122907801

    Well not with Geordie playing 10. Sam will be back playing Leinster A games pretty soon. Frawley is a better player than Sam and by a wide margin.



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  • #39922
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,349 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907859#Comment_122907859

    First choice for most tier one teams will end up being a forward due to the nature of the game.

    Sam whitelock

    Fabian pelous

    James slipper

    Cian Healy

    Alyn Wyn Jones

    Ross ford

    Eben etzebth

    Sergio parisse

    Augustine creevy

    Hitoshi ono

    Todd clever

    Nili latu

    Only England Samoa Fiji and Georgia have a back as their most capped, and I dare say in time that will change.



  • #39923
    exiledawaynothere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 593 ✭✭✭exiledawaynothere


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907664#Comment_122907664

    thanks - there was talk about cheap caps but is there a more decorated player in Irish rugby history?



  • #39924
    StevenToast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,764 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Stink from Ireland this Autumn...it will only get worse with Easterby and O'Connell now in charge....

    "SUBSCRIBE TO BOARDS YOU TIGHT CÙNT".....Plato 400 B.C



  • #39925
    niallm77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907540#Comment_122907540

    Well Jim.is talking bollocks to be fair. Did Crowley look like a man who doesn't want to play for Andy Farrell when he came on yesterday??



  • #39926
    niallm77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907844#Comment_122907844

    At 6/8 we have some viable options, Baird and conan are there, plus C Prendergast and Izuchukwu. I do think one of the latter 2 should have been involved yesterday.

    At Centre we have 4 good options experience wise, plus Osborne has emerged. Osborne is also a viable alternative At 15

    I think our biggest issues are on the wing and Loose Head. Stockdale has looked in good form this season, just a pity he got injured last week

    Casey is probably the biggest winner of this series for me but with JGP and Murray very much the wrong side of 30 (33 and 36 early in new year) we do need to look at bringing someone else into the squad next summer.

    JGP will likely be in Australia so I think Casey will tour with Ireland and we shouldn't include Murray



  • #39927
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We're talking in the blind here but there are a few instances where I thought Farrell could have done better

    Crowley getting no game time in the RWC QF

    Farrell specifically naming Crowley after a squad piss poor performance v ABs

    Crowley listed for media duty & the team wasn't announced to the players until after the media duty but before some of the media stuff could be published.

    I've previously said that Farrell could be up there with being Ireland's top coach so I hope he's managing this stuff with Crowley in the background because if he's not I'd question his people management.



  • #39928
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122908062#Comment_122908062

    Oh, Crowley showed yesterday that he's without doubt the best outhalf of the three uses this autumn, he'll stick around.



  • #39929
    niallm77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122908070#Comment_122908070

    I don't know why you're quoting me on that point. I'm not the one advocating he won't, or that he will leave because he was on the bench yesterday.



  • #39930
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,562 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122908072#Comment_122908072

    I'm agreeing with you, that Crowley played like someone who will stick around and someone who should be starting for Ireland



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  • #39931
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,069 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122907616#Comment_122907616

    It’s a fair question.

    Sexton was extremely scrawny at 21, he didn’t debut for Ireland until he was 24.

    ROG got a hundred caps and never reached the athletic standards of a top level OH, but it didn’t hold him back. Debut at 23 iirc.

    Carbery was a superb athlete at 21 but a very flawed OH. We all spent years waiting for him to learn how to be a better one but it never happened.

    I’d rather try to pack some muscle onto a good young OH than turn a bad one into a good one.



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