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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    I read all the parties "manifestos". Only Sinn Fein seem to have put serious effort into theirs. All political parties are business as usual on the energy front, they do not intend to change the current course. All political parties repeat what the wind and solar industry lobbyists have told them. Energy policy in Ireland is total groupthink. All political parties promote the delusion that unreliable generation is cheaper and they can control electricity prices by decree by simply reorganising various state boards.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Not the end of the story. It's US chapter 11, this is bankruptcy protection from creditors and reorganisation. As well as Volkswagen who have their own problems, there is a pension fund caught up in this as well. All this green funds may be bad for your retirement.

    Northvolt, whose motto is "make oil history", has received more than $10 billion in equity, debt and public financing, and counts Volkswagen, with a 21% stake, and Goldman Sachs, with a 19% holding, as its biggest owners. source


    A startup in the UK, Britishvolt collapsed last year, as did AMTE Power in Scotland. Hertz gave up on EVs. EVs will continue to be a niche market. The carnage of net zero mandates has spread to the UK, Stellantis are not prepared to sell petrol/diesel vehicles at a loss, because of ZEV fines, they shuttered their Vauxhall plant. You would wonder what the unions role these days is, no doubt pressure will be bought to bear on the UK Labour party.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,633 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    A lot of birds coming home to roust on finance and renewables, and we still have no idea what the current proposals on wind energy are going to cost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,431 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Given that we continue to import cheaper GB and European wind, even during the occasional high wind days here, I can't see too many of those current proposals going ahead.

    Actually, I should rephrase that - we shouldn't see too many going ahead (but the ridiculous requirement to pay for oversupply even if we don't need it, means we'll have a scheme like the cash for ash up North, so who knows?).

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭bluedex


    The asset management industry, and hence pension funds, are slowly and quietly backing away from Green-focused investment strategies (the E in ESG investing). They simply don't perform well enough, plus they are getting a negative biase in the industry as a whole. People employed in the industry generally see it as a marketing strategy, not an embedded investment or securities selection strategy.

    No matter what your opinion on the Greens and their policies, you should be glad of this if you're interested in your pension when you retire.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭bluedex


    The current Minister for Transport is a Green minister, E Ryan. However, the commuter train service for the capital city, a key transport network for the country, has deteriorated under his tenure. Increased instances of trains arriving with 4 carriages instead of 8, dangerously overcrowded, leading to people fainting/collapsing, consistently late arrivals/departures, journeys taking longer, etc. etc. Kids being late for school, students being late for college, workers being late into work.

    But that's ok because he flies off to junkets in Baku and the like, and returns home to tell us how to live our lives and what we have to sacrifice here in order to offset emissions from China (Yes, I know I'm being a bit glib). Maybe lets get public services sorted here first as a priority?

    Makes my blood boil!

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    There’s a good reason they don’t perform

    Any company in US and Europe in renewables space is being destroyed and strangled by Chinese competition which is heavily state subsidised and filed by coal and using dirty minerals and rare earths often from places with slavery (China itself ha slavery too)

    How does one compete against that?

    which has equated to terrible performance in last few years at a time when markets overall are on a tear, I’m looking at 40% returns in last year alone



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,633 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Wind is not becoming cheaper despite all the guff we heard of it going to.

    The September CFD price in the U.K for fixed turbines is 40% higher than the 2022 price. (£58.87 in September 2024. £42.47 in 2022). That is a strike price of €100/ MWh. For floating turbines the U.K. strike price is now €236/MWh.

    If, by the unlikely off-chance imo of us getting the same strike price, under the current proposed offshore/hydrogen plan the real strike price for electricity, (even without all the extra hydrogen add-ons) would be €200/MWh for fixed and €472/MWh for floating. And we would be paying that for all generated even if we don`t need it.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    This is great summery of the Green party and why the are so popular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,633 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Not to get into the whole nuclear debate, but that strike price for here, (without the hydrogen add-ons), of €200/MWh for fixed turbines and €472/MWh for floating turbines compared to the most "dreadful deal behind the world`s most expensive plant" greens could find is Hinkley Point currently €155/MWh

    Close to 25% cheaper than fixed and three times cheaper than floating for a plant that would have over twice the capacity factor of either and an operational lifespan three times greater and no paying for generation not needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭bluedex


    It doesn't actually matter what the reason is. When it comes to professional investment of peoples money it's brutally simple, if it doesn't perform it doesn't get bought. Investor confidence has moved away from Green and it's something that's very difficult to get back.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Another green policy “success” right before an election



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The thing is, no matter how cheap we can make our electricity we still pay the same to every supplier because of our bonkers privatised system that the greens really should have changed. It means we could set up a nuclear power plant at a cost of €50/MWh that can supply 99.9% of our needs but that fossil fuel plant that supplies 0.1% of our needs charging €500/MWh increases the price we pay for nuclear power 10-fold

    As an aside wind (and solar) should be close to being free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,633 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The greens love renewable companies and renewable companies love the marginal pricing policy where they are guaranteed first shot at providing what is required without having to quote a price, knowing at the end of the day they will be paid the same rate per unit as the most expensive source in the mix. Even when that source has provided a miniscule percentage of the total units.

    For these renewable companies It`s a licence to print money. If there is any business concern that has the most interest in keeping fossil fuels in the mix it`s these renewable companies.

    The whole concept is so crazy that if we stopped using gas and just used coal our electricity would be cheaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,146 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Incredible that an article with so many untruths can be published.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Here's an interesting one, it's fact checking MLMD's claim that carbon taxes haven't impacted our carbon emissions

    https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-carbon-tax-ireland-carbon-emissions-reduction-6541256-Nov2024/

    TL;DR

    Impossible to say for sure if one tax has reduced our carbon emissions but also no proof to say it wasn't a contributor so saying they haven't would be FALSE

    I think we all expected this result

    Post edited by Red Silurian on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Punitive cigarette taxes never eliminated smoking in Ireland, the taxes have reduced tobacco consumption, chain smoking become very expensive. The rise of the mobile phone and social media has probably had the greatest impact on people not starting the habit, much discretionary cash that teenagers have goes on mobile phone. That behaviour change in the 90s may be showing up in the lung cancer rates for women. Complicating analysis has been the pricing of alcohol and shutdown of social outlets like pubs. Drug use (not counting caffeine) has become more widespread especially cannabis and cocaine but a myriad of other narcotics are abused on top of prescription abuse. In 2024, it is cheaper to get wasted on cannabis, than go out for pints. Smuggled cigarettes are the most profitable narcotic due to the markup imposed by taxation and vape shops are widespread. Has the ban on smoking in public places reduced smoking rate or have people adapted and adopted other bad habits? No one can rightly answer.

    Cigarette consumption is a discretionary habit. Energy consumption is a different matter entirely, the cost of energy has a direct impact on the cost of living for everyone. Carbon dioxide and other environmental taxes are embedded in everything we buy, somewhere along the distribution chain diesel is used to produce and ship the product to you. The reason governments can get away with such high duties on energy is entirely down to the productivity enabled by burning these fuels. On top of everything else these taxes are chipping away at heavy industry which tends to use a lot of energy, those companies move their operations outside the EU.

    We must eat and drink, additionally in Ireland we need to stay warm, these are not optional. For the regular Joe, the most noticeable effect of carbon taxes happens at the margins of Irish society, anyone on low income gets hammered by the cost of living.

    The rising costs of energy prices continue to disproportionately impact households in the bottom 20% of the income distribution who spend a larger percentage of their income on energy as those on low incomes are placed under the financial burden of heating often inefficient homes. source


    All taxing carbon dioxide is doing is adding to misery, while energy intensive industries may the first move away, the service industries that depend on them will likewise move and shutdown locally.

    Energy poverty at highest recorded rate

    Energy inflation between January 2021 and April 2022 increased the cost of estimated households’ consumption by €21.27 per week, on average: This rises to €38.63 per week when motor fuels are included. Should energy prices rise by a further 25 per cent, we estimate this would increase by an average of €36.57, excluding motor fuels, or €67.66 if they are included.                                                                                                                

    There is a strong income gradient in the impact of energy price increases: we estimate that recent increases in energy costs (including motor fuels) amount to 5.9 per cent of after-tax and transfer income for the lowest-income fifth of households compared to 3.1 per cent for the highest income fifth. This is because a larger share of lower-income households’ spending is on energy, particularly home heating and electricity.


    People on high income may have enough discretionary income that they are willing to pay more environmental taxes. That willingness disappears as the rising cost of living est their income as well. Sinn Fein seem to be more aware of this among their constituency, whereas Fianna Fail are full steam ahead with environmental taxes, we will see how that works out after this weekend.

    Imagine it like this, you get a telephone survey asking about how much you rated the "problem" of climate change and if you would be willing to pay €1 per year to reduce greenhouse gases? Most people might be like "Feck it, it's just a euro, grand so". However, if the surveyor followed up and asked would you pay €100,000 to achieve that same objective? Most of us would be like, "Jaysus I don't have that sort of cash, if I ever did, I'd find better things to do with it".

    Like most people you have a preference for the environment causes that works out somewhere between between €1 and €100,000 and there is a decreasing willingness to pay as the price goes higher.  You got other more important things to do, like get your children through schooling. Likewise with taxes, there is a limit to environmental taxes. Across the EU and Britain we are watching the largest energy consumers either shut production or move away to other jurisdictions, the costs are too much. Those burdens work their way down the chain.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not sure what's going on with the TFI live app this morning, bus was meant to be 5 minutes away as we were about to cross the road to the stop while it flew past us and updated to 'due'

    Walked to to a nearby stop where another route was 12 minutes away, updated to 2 minutes, 1 minute, due, 16 minutes and then it showed up a few seconds later

    4 years of green party politics and they still can't get the simple stuff right. I'm not surprised they're taking a battering in the election



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,271 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    GP getting the boot in Dublin SW.

    The people have spoken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,346 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You think the next government will make TFI more efficient? I think you're all in for a surprise when there are no Greens in government and nothing really changes. We'll still have carbon taxes, rules on turf, no nuclear, poor public transport etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,271 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    and all of the above are legacies of the GP.
    Oh and add in the DRS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I had expected at the time, obviously incorrectly, that the Greens in government and in charge of the transport portfolio would have vastly improved the simplest part of the countries public transport system



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,271 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,346 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    They've had to deal with 100 years of FFFG ignoring public transport, to be fair



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,346 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,271 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Well Maybe the new government could actually try and reduce the use of plastic instead of increasing the amount of plastic going to landfill in Africa for example.

    That’s just one policy that would make sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,426 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    its amazing and disturbing at the same time, that some seem to think theres gonna be radical changes with no greens in government, sorry to tell you folks, ffg governments are always gonna result in the same outcomes, no matter who their government parties will be!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,271 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I think most are happy with the status quo which is why the main parties of FFFG will be back in, but the public have kicked back against certain “green”(not very good for the planet/humankind measures), measures which can be seen in the way the vote is going.



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