Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Energy infrastructure

1193194196198199207

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Does putting solar panels on land preclude it from use for grazing - say grazing sheep?

    It makes sense to use agricultural roofs for solar panels - that makes absolute sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,999 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Going by a locally planned Solar Farm to me. You will be allowed 2.5 sheep per hectare in the month of March each year when you read the finer details of the proposed development!!

    As mentioned in another post from that thread I mentioned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Solar is no different to any other medium-term change of use on a farm. The farm remains "a farm" for all legal purposes until more than half of the land is used for "not farming". If you have a typical 50-100 acre small farm, and put 5 under solar panels (that's a lot of solar panels!), it will not affect your status as a farmer.


    Solar is also a very good option for upland sheep farmers. Raise the panels about 1.5 m off the ground on the rockiest part of your holding, where there wasn't much grazing, and the panesl provide shelter to your sheep, plus an additional income.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭Apogee


    There was quite a bit of local opposition to this, based on media reports. If you look through the planning documentation, a considerable number of objections were submitted - many of them on the basis of new/"unproven" technology. The applicants also notified Donegal CoCo that planning notices were repeatedly being ripped down. I was a little surprised that the project did get the green light. Chances are, it will be appealed.

    Another battery project, but at a very different scale (150MW/300MWh), opened in Aghada:

    https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41519201.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel


    ABP gave the go ahead to a solar farm near clonea power in the summer. Looks sizeable.

    There's another site which received approval but has never been built. It's close to the welcome inn on the N72 near modeligo.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,730 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I see Sweetman is a party on the planning.

    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/317188



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Do an image search on Agrivoltics :)

    You can have grazing or plants that like a bit of shade or lower temperatures growing under panels. You can collect rainwater off the panels too. https://phys.org/news/2024-11-agrivoltaics-sustainable-food-energy-east.html

    Most farms have a grid connection , was it the IFA who reckoned you could fit 3GW here on buildings ?

    Plants like red and blue light. Splitting the light or dye based panels could run on UV or green or infrared. It might be a thing in future.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    It is also fantastic for biodiversity. You can leave wild native grassland and plants grow under and beside the panels and then have sheep graze it from getting too tall.

    The native grasslands are vastly more biodiverse then a typical cultivated farm field. Native grass and wild floors, bees, butterflies, a place for small animals, birds, foxes, etc.

    It would be a win win all round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭gjim


    It doesn't preclude it. But it rarely makes financial sense to increase the installation costs and maintenance costs just to free up a few hectares for sheep grazing. There's no end of unproductive land where sheep can be and are grazed effectively for free.

    Existing agricultural roofs (or any other sort of roof) are not great places for solar panels, in my opinion. There simply isn't enough area to start, most are unsuitable in one way or another (in tree shadow, not structurally capable, too-difficult to access, too steeply pitched, etc). In many cases, if you really want clearance between the ground and your solar panels, it would be cheaper to build a completely new structure to hold the panels than try to fit them to existing barn roofs and the like.

    You need to look at the numbers - people have an inflated idea of the commercial value of agricultural land or any land - i.e. the rental value. Solar panels are cheap - adding complexity to their installation destroys the value proposition.

    In theory we could use existing roof-tops for all sorts of things - but that doesn't mean we should. Given the finances, at this stage, it makes about as much economic sense to try to commercially grow roof-top potatoes by retro-fitting roofs with planters as it does putting solar panels on roof. It might even be cheaper 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,730 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Solar in the UK is providing 8.3% of the UK demand at the moment. Probably ideal weather over there also, but not bad for November.

    image.png


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,999 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Wind providing 4.8% of current demand here.

    No wind 20-11-24.jpg

    Loads more renewables hype should soon fix that, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,730 ✭✭✭✭josip


    It's good that we have the interconnection, and more planned, to alleviate this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Which is why we should have a bit of everything. Residential use is approx 25% of grid demand and residential PV doesn't take up any agricultural land.

    Screenshot_20241120_112204_SolisCloud.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MightyMunster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Paddico


    I would imagine there wouldnt be much grazing if the solar panels are shading the ground and limiting growth.

    But I like your idea



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    FWIW, the 24MW solar farm outside Cahir received planning in 2016, only just gone live this month. I'd hope that's an outlier and any projects approved now would go ahead more quickly!

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Yup, shocker wind turbines provides no energy on calm days,

    also my oil boiler doesn't work when the oil tank is empty ,

    This is not shock news - wind is non dispatchable and intermittent,

    There's 2 ways of looking at it , either wind is there to lower the gas bill ,

    Or Gas is there to back up wind power ,

    It's part of the system,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    First of all, you have a pretty wide strip of land between each row of solar panels, which gets great growth. But even under the panels you still get decent growth. Keep in mind the solar panel don't block all sun light.

    Sheep are already been used to graze under solar panels both here in Ireland and internationally.

    Untitled Image


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭omicron


    All island all time system demand record was broken yesterday evening, 7051 MW at 17.30.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,999 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    At around the same time you were screenshotting the UK solar to crow about, France was coincidentally also getting 8% of it's power from solar.

    Solar sounds impressive when you talk about it at precisely the right time, but it's a pathetic power source over time:

    France solar 20-11-24.jpg

    That 8% turned out to be risible in the context of 24 hours. They have 21.9 GW of solar capacity and it produced hardly anything over 24 hours for a cost of northward of €22 billion in outlay. Solar isn't just useless at our latitude in a 24 hour context, it's useless for months, when energy demand is highest.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 262 ✭✭specialbyte


    Except that solar reduced the hydro and gas output while it was producing. Reducing hydro demand saves a dispatchable renewable resource for a time it is in need. Reducing gas demand reduces fossil emissions and dependence on foreign powers. To avoid all doubt, these are good things.

    The second half of your post outlines you know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. There's no point knowing the costs if you don't also know the value they provide to the system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Those snap shots of production are a bit much - "on a windy 30 mins in march 80%of the grid was supplied by wind , yes it shows what's possible - but the opposite snap shots showing really low production at a certain time are equally not giving the full picture,

    I'm not a huge fan of commercial scale solar energy ,in Irish conditions, I suppose If it can be done cheaply enough -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The economics of solar changes when the domestic situation is taken into account as the numbers are different.

    If we look at a typical type of domestic installation (the most favourable type). If there is a suitable roof that is south facing that will take sufficient panels, and there is a battery installation possible to provide about 48 hours of storage, then the question is the payback time calculated from annual consumption cost vs the installation cost.

    Now what makes the difference from a commercial situation is that the cost is the domestic situation is calculated at retail costs rather than wholesale rates. Additionally, the battery allows arbitrage by using low cost off peak charging to reduce high cost peak cost consumption.

    Of course, SEA grants might make a difference as could low cost loans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    "payback time calculated from annual consumption cost vs the installation cost."

    Green Party solution to promote uptake of domestic solar would be to make retail electricity as expensive as possible for all including those who can't mount panels.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do not think there is any evidence of that. The GP are not responsible for setting retail electricity prices.

    I am not in any way related to the GP, but I understand the carbon tax, which is a GP policy, is ring fenced to provide financial support to reduce carbon emissions - particularly insulation, which is offered at no cost to those who cannot afford it, and grant aided to all others.

    The point I was making was the difference of retail and wholesale prices - which applies to all goods and services. The ESB gets their electricity much cheaper than the rate at which they sell it to me - much cheaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Rained in cork last night - I blame the Green party

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I couldn't find my keys last week, and so I was late for an appointment. Damn that Eamon Ryan!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 852 ✭✭✭gossamerfabric


    decarbonised electricity in the short term doesn't come cheap …Green Party of course are to blame.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: I know it is great gas to blame the Green Party for everything, but the joke is on those that do.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,730 ✭✭✭✭josip


    After the low winds of mid November it's good to see a surplus of wind generation this afternoon; 78% of grid demand being met by it, plus a few hundred MW being exported.

    image.png

    image.png


Advertisement