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Ireland's Refugee Policy cont. Please read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Only after every Russian in EU is sent packing home, sure they tell us every day they didn’t start a war



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭NattyO


    Not true at all I'm afraid.

    Kiev is full of military age males walking around without a care in the world. There are concerts, football matches, and nightclubs in full swing.

    The only Ukrainian males in any danger of being sent to the front line are poor ones - the guys driving around Ireland in BMW's and Mercs wouldn't be seen within a mile of any front line if they went home.

    Ukraine had over 8.5 million men eligible for the draft when the Russians invaded - it's estimated that between 3-3.5 million of these ran away. Around 1 million have been drafted, but the vast majority of these are occupied in safe roles, far from any fighting. Ukraine has hundreds of thousands of soldiers "guarding" the borders with Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, Slovakia etc. - which makes one wonder how so many draft-dodgers escaped!

    Ukraine has an acute shortage of front-line troops, and anyone with money or connections have no fear of seeing any Russians up close.

    Ireland and the rest of Europe are facilitating the Russians by sheltering draft-dodgers by the millions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Can you provide some more information on that please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭NattyO


    It's very disingenuous to pretend that Irish homeless people (be they addicts or not - addicts are still people I'm afraid) are getting the same treatment as asylum seekers or refugees.

    When Irish homeless people are offered accommodation, it is usually only for one night, and usually only in a hostel setting.

    Ukrainians and other refugees, unlike homeless Irish, are not being kicked out of their accommodation every morning to walk the streets all day (regardless of whether they have addiction problems or not), and they don't have to traipse around in the rain every evening to see if they can get a bed.

    They are not being separated from their loved ones, and their accommodation has security to prevent the violence that Irish homeless services users suffer.

    I know it is an unbreakable dogma for a certain cohort of the Irish refugee industry to pretend that the Irish homeless are authors of their own misfortune, and would be living in clover if they only acted more like the wonderful refugees, but it is not true I'm afraid - the treatment of the two groups are like night and day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    You are not going to get clean if your life is sitting on the streets all day and into a hostel for a few hours at night.

    I am sure their are many who ended up homeless and turned to drugs and drink as a coping mechanism.

    The government should be providing these people with proper refuge and a chance to turn their life around.

    I have no idea what your last point is supposed to mean, if you offered a homeless person a warm room and meals they would take that over sleeping rough or in hostels.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    What exactly are you looking for?

    You must have seen the homeless numbers, people living in emergency accomodation?

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/number-of-people-in-emergency-accommodation-reaches-new-record-of-14760-1687552.html

    What types of emergency accommodation are there?

    The most common types of emergency accommodation for single people or couples are hostels. Other places used for emergency accommodation include bed and breakfasts, hotels and family hubs. These places are used in situations where hostels are not suitable and are primarily provided to families. However, they can be provided if you have special medical or social needs, depending on availability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    I think the salient point here is that if the government curtailed the admittance and accomodation of IPAS, almost all of whom are bogus and none of whom need be here, it would free up enormous space and resources to combat the problem of native homelessness.

    As well as a growing plethora of other national problems which the establishment has a much greater, more immediate moral duty to confront.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    So as I expected it is mostly Irish families that are getting hotel rooms.

    Some poor chap who loses his job and house will be alternating from the streets to a hostel.

    Do you not think Irish homeless men should be giving the same treatment as single asylum seekers and be provided with hotel accommodation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    There are plenty of single men and women living in hotels. Not all counties have homeless hostels. Hotels all over the country are housing homeless single people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 678 ✭✭✭engineerws




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Emergency accomodation is hostels, hotels, B&Bs all over the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 678 ✭✭✭engineerws


    So predominantly hostels except in exceptional circumstances. I have to agree with others who wonder why Irish homeless are not offered similar care as IPAS and refugees.

    Post edited by engineerws on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Aside from the usual hateful rhetoric and unsubstantiated/false claims about IPAs…

    Do you think any FF/FG government is ever going to get serious about tackling homelessness?

    I can't see how it could be done without tackling the housing crisis in general.

    Meanwhile, largely due to the anti-immigration movement weakening the opposition and driving voters back to FF/FG, we're looking at at least another five years of the same failures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Has something changed in how the 'Irish homeless' are treated in the last few years since IPA numbers started to rise again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Your report said families and in exceptional cases single people were in hotels.

    Can you tell me which counties do not have homeless hostels and we can try work out where all these plenty of singles are housed from that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,226 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Well maybe this might seem like a far out idea for little old Ireland but how about we set up a task force like they have in other countries who's job it is to deport those who have no right to be here.

    And by that I mean scrapping this rubbish system of self deportation and making sure they physically get on the plane out of here.

    15000 overstayers came out of the woodwork a few years ago when the ammesty was offered so it goes to prove that if they want to stay and live here under the rader they will do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭NattyO


    In the immortal words of Sean Connery in Diamonds are Forever;

    "Ah, Plenty"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,505 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I have no idea what your last point is supposed to mean, if you offered a homeless person a warm room and meals they would take that over sleeping rough or in hostels.

    People who are homeless in many instances do not want to be moved to the arsé end of nowhere into some run down hotel.

    They want to stay around where their kids are enrolled in school or close to where they work and their support network.

    Moving a mother with 4 kids from Dublin to North Clare or vice versa should not happen for those reasons.

    Similarly someone with addiction issues won't move to Mayo because they won't be able to readily access their addiction or whatever peer groups they have established.

    You are trying to over simplify a very complex problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    And with the country at full employment, who's going to work in this task force?

    I think we'd end up recruiting from abroad, either directly or indirectly.

    Not to mind that but who's going to do the jobs the deported asylum seekers are working at (given the strength of their employment rates)? More recruitment from abroad I'd think.

    It sounds to me like you want to set up a presumably hugely expensive task-force, just to replace one type of worker from abroad with another, while at most deporting maybe 10-20% of the IPAs here.

    I'd imagine there'd also have to be significant legislative changes to give this taskforce, who I suppose would be some sort of private, outsourced operation, anything close to the powers of arrest and detention AGS have. Them lawyers don't come cheap either. What's this I keep hearing about a 'refugee industry'?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,226 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Grand, just leave things as they are so.

    Watch the whole system crash and burn.

    The so called far right you guys on the left fear so much at he moment will be replaced by the real far right because this outgoing government and the next one do nothing about immigration into this country.

    We were a few decades behind the rest of Europe as regards inward migration due to our geographical location and poor standard of living up until about 25 years ago but if the last 3 years are anything to go by we will be one of the worst affected countries in the next few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Is the issue not the fact that asylum seekers are all 'housed, and fed, and given somewhere to stay'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,226 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    No.

    The issue is there are too many arriving and a lot of these so called asylum seekers are economic migrants who just couldn't be arsed coming here to work legally by applying for a work visa.

    Georgia and Nigeria are two good examples of this.

    I know you don't want to hear this but we are seen as an easy mark which is why we will continue to be on the radar for people who want to live in Europe but don't want to get here legally.

    And it doesn't help when parties like the Soc Dems, Labour and the Greens bury their heads in the sand on the whole migration question.

    Even SF can see its an issue for voters which is why they are slightly changing their view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'm not so worried about the far-right in that sense.

    I think they've reached their limit around Europe and will be badly exposed by a Trump presidency.

    But what exactly is 'crashing and burning'?

    We're spending too much on IPA accommodation (as we do with many other areas of public spending), but otherwise?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    The issue is there are too many arriving and a lot of these so called asylum seekers are economic migrants who just couldn't be arsed coming here to work legally by applying for a work visa.

    So, too many asylum seekers? How do you stop that? How many would be acceptable.

    And, some of them are chancing their arm? Isn't that what the system is for, to decide whether or not they are allowed to stay, that they reach the standard required? Obviously it's not quick enough.

    But the issue with people working here, I don't understand, surely people working here is better then people not working? As for the ones that 'came out of the woodwork ' some years ago, they were all looking after themselves as they were undocumented.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,226 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Thats why this self deportation malarky isn't working, 15000 living under the radar before the amnesty proves that they are able to live here so why would they go back to their home countries when realistically there is nobody to check if they have actually left the country.

    McEntee herself has suggested there could be another amnesty in the future so they will just wait it out.

    The system is broken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    15,000 undocumented doesn't mean they came as asylum seekers. They were from all backgrounds, people overstaying visas, coming on 'holiday ' and remaining on, just coming here illegally, walking across the border etc.

    Are you suggesting that AGS need to keep tabs on every holiday maker and those coming here on visas and then forcibly removing them? How would that work?

    If there are undocumented people living here, they are not dependant on the state. they are obviously looking after themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,226 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Jesus Christ its like talking to the wall.

    You seem to think nothing should change so we could go back and forth all day and get nowhere on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,492 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    You didn't address one single point out of the few I made. You're not talking to.anyone when you don't address points.

    explanation being, I suppose that you cannot

    Post edited by suvigirl on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭TokTik




This discussion has been closed.
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