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Ireland's reliance on Corporation Tax receipts

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    As long as the government treat it as a windfall tax, then there wouldn't be reliance on it as an income stream. Once they don't go reducing taxes based off that and use it for investment or infrastructure etc… it's all good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    So now with Trump heading for the White House it's looking like big changes are coming. As I posted previously Biden and Trump before all said they wanted to crack down on corporate tax avoidance and all really failed in the end. So will this time be different, I can see Trump been ruthless this time, and will push hard for change. This is the biggest issue for Ireland now and for irelands decades old economic model. We all thought it would come down with a recession but Trump will do it quicker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭riddles


    an additional issue is the repositioning of tech jobs into low cost countries. The post Covid realisation that it’s not really common sense filling roles in mid to high cost locations with visa applicants from low cost countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭arctictree


    Trump might say that he wants to crack down on corporation tax avoidance but is it really in his best interests?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    So back to this - how much of a hole in Ireland Inc's finances will there be if/when Trump brings IP taxation back to USA?

    Assuming majority of MNC jobs stay here for the R&D tax credits and actual engineering roles, from IP taxes alone how much will we lose?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,827 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Basically the ramp up from 2020 to now plus more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/senator-michael-mcdowell-calls-for-capital-gains-tax-to-be-slashed-in-seanad-speech-on-the-finance-bill/a406452506.html

    Lower capital gains, Will lead to 2-3x increase in those taxes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    This thread seems an awful lot more prescient with Trump's victory, unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,313 ✭✭✭✭Geuze




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,827 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    and even at that had been fairly increased in prior years. The 2020 uplift relates to a great extent from large transfer of intellectual property brought into Ireland predominantly from tax havens where it had been offshore by (principally) US MNCs. While many of those MNCs also have significant physical operations here, those are either entirely or substantially separate to the IP aspects, ie even if the CT related to the IP reduces or disappears, it does not mean that the related employment (and employment-related taxes) would necessarily disappear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,632 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Yikes - up to a 16bn reduction in tax take

    That would leave us in deficit again, over 10bn in the hole even if all jobs remained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭crusd


    Follow th e2014 to 202 trendline on that chart through and it would put out current take closer to 20billion. You believe there was no increase in real economic activity here associated with MNCs in the interim? Thats quite and unusual take



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭thereiver


    Politicans think maybe one year ahead .I think we are at the peak of the boom at some point the revenue from Intel google meta and other corporations will fall .we should be getting ready for lower tax revenues. Trump wants to raise taxes on all company's imports to America

    Most of our exports go to America

    We are now at Celtic tiger version 2;

    An ordinary house costs 300,,k

    Its likely the economy will slow down

    Of course gen z is too young to remember the end of the Celtic tiger in 2008 they have grown up with a booming economy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Looking at the manifestos and the (crazy) spending promises every party should be put on the spot and asked what are they going to do when the windfall ends?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    What legal options does Ireland have, in terms of offsetting the 15% CT rate?

    Could we set up an MNC domestic capital investment fund, whereby 3% of the 15% CT is re-directed to a fund that can be spent by the MNC in Ireland.

    The effective CT rate is only now 12% for the MNC, making Ireland an outlier again and attractive to FDI.

    The capital fund could be used for day-to-day spend by the MNC, covering bills, overheads and the like; or, it could prompt more investment in Ireland.

    If a company can build a new office block with the fund, perhaps they will invest in ireland, where the costs are covered, rather than other EU/AMEA sites that are unfunded.

    We also then have an uplift in construction work in Ireland as a secondary benefit, in order to plan and build the new office.

    We dont need the 15% rate, so there has to be creative ways to lower that rate, legally, of course.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    That would be illegal state aid.

    We don't need to undercut the 15% CT rate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    We dont need to, I agree. But we can function at a lower rate and have done so for years.

    The 15% rate will become more commonplace, and so we will lose out tax advantage.

    There must be other, legal ways, to offset a tax rate that we dont need, is really what I am saying.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The whole point of the OECD 15% minimum is to avoid offsetting to a lower tax rate. Whether it is possible is a different question but obviously its against the spirit of the agreement.

    We have a critical mass of investment already in Ireland - we need to maintain our position in IT and pharma but it doesn't require tax incentives just competent governance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,231 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Agree about the critical mass and the sterling job done so far to accumulate the FDI we have.

    I cant help but think that in the long run, the 15% rate, pushed by the larger countries, will benefit the larger countries over the small; and our critical mass of MNCs will begin to fracture.

    I hope you are right of course, and that govt policies are enough to maintain what we have built.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,411 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    Anyone who thinks MNCs will just up and go back to America or somewhere else in Europe where English isn't the first language has clearly never worked in a MNC….

    The likes of Apple, Microsoft already have the vast majority of their employees based in the US, a presence is still required around the world too.

    Still agree that we should be prudent with spending though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    One of the worst case scenarios for us is if Trump slaps a 20% tariff across the board on the EU including us but not on the UK, a very real possibility.

    Anyway we are well on the list



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,355 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    It just don't make no sense.

    Us could not compensate with it's own production anyway, they don't have the skilled labour, they would have to ironically have massive immigration.

    Particularly true of pharma, where are they going to magic thousands of trained pharma professionals with us visas?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,130 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So if people are so sure of a collapse in corporation tax receipts, then what steps are you personally taking to prepare for it?
    Pay down debt?
    Invest any cash in gold?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No one is bring pharma production back to the US or across to the UK cause of tariffs that won't last beyond a 4 year term (if that).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Of you follow their posts in other threads they are stockpiling roubles 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    If only your posts were as funny as your spelling mistakes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Some are even openly praying and cheering for the arrival of the great khan from the east



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    There is a thread here for Ukraine. I don't know why you're bringing this nonsense in here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Because it’s clear economic and political opinions of the more conspiracy theory minded posters who have fallen deep down a rabbit hole is influenced by consumption of misinformation by states unfriendly to our values and way of life?



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