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Missing 8yr Old Kyran Durnin - presumed dead *READ Mod Note Added to OP*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The mother told the school that the child was moving to a school in the north. At that point there were no concerns. Why would the school have done anything to follow up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    The case worker/tusla should have followed up with the school after the meeting, not the school themselves.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So feel free to go to your TD and complain about the chronic understaffing in Tusla, around social workers. When a parent is engaged in this level of alleged subterfuge then one overworked social worker is not going to crack a case, during a pandemic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    I’m not sure what you are implying here, for it to be ok not to follow up because it was a pandemic or tusla are under staffed?

    Something that is not common knowledge, by the way. I’ve no idea if tusla was/is understaffed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Even if Tusla rang the school, the school would say that child was taken out of school.

    If Tusla had to chase down every child who moved house, how would that work?

    Like, there seems to be an impression here that Tusla is some sort of crime-fighting agency. They're simply not set up to deal with complex and pre-meditated crimes such as those that have been alleged in this case, nor should they be. Your local principal certainly isn't either.

    I'll say it again, there is only one culprit here, no matter how people want to spin and deflect it. All these grudges against Tusla or the state are a complete sideshow.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They could have followed up but there was significant subterfuge apparently by the mother/grandmother, to the level of bringing another child into a meeting (???).

    I can just see how an over loaded case worker is getting hoodwinked by this.

    It's a general frustration of mine. We don't have enough social workers, nurses, gardaí, and doctors yet we blame them where there is a systemic failure. Our government have understaffed public services to a breaking point and are only too **** happy to throw the lowest rung on the ladder under the bus (if it ever actually arrives)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    I can’t tell if you genuinely do not understand what I’m saying so I’ll try to explain better.

    You asked what Tusla should have done. At the meeting they should have asked the mother- why has kyran missed school for the past 2 years (or however long). If the mother said he was in x school in NI, then following the meeting they should have contacted that school.

    If the mother said he was sick with covid in hospital, they should have followed up with the hospital.

    If the mother says he hasn’t been in school for a year, then a plan should have been made for the mother to re-enrol the child in a school and that school followed up with by Tusla to check if the child was re-enrolled and if the child did in fact attend.

    This is the very minimum of what I would expect from tusla. This doesn’t require any great skill or detective work. I’m surprised to think that they just meet with the family and that’s it, case closed, all good.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They apparently brought a different child into the meeting

    "where is Kyran?"

    "He's right here"

    How easy is it for a social worker to get information about a school pupil list in NI? Do you know?

    They were apparently presented with a healthy boy and the mother said that they were in school in a different jurisdiction. Is the social worker meant to have some spidey sense or something and then trigger a cross border request for information?

    What do you think a school in NI would do to a random call from Ireland about their pupil names/details?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    I meant- why has he not been in school, or if he has been in school, what school?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They said that he was in school in a different country. Do you know if TESS has any rights to school attendance for NI?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    How do you know that is what the parent told tusla? Apparently that is what the parent told the school in 2022, but we have no idea what they told tusla.

    I don’t know the ins and outs but someone else posted above that there is actually cross border links for situations like this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    At the meeting they should have asked the mother- why has kyran missed school for the past 2 years (or however long).

    You're missing the key piece of information here - no one knew he had been missing from school, there was no reason to go chasing the parent down because there was no concern.

    As far as anyone knew, he was in school in the north. Even if they asked, "how is Kyran getting on in school?", the answer would have been, "yes, just fine, thanks".

    Tusla cannot just launch a cross-border investigation on a whim, and they had no reason to do so, let alone any legal basis.

    Post edited by Former Former Former on


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,615 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    If the school was told Kyran was moving to a school in the north he won't have been marked as absent because he was no longer attending that school, so Tusla wouldn't have received a report about his lack of attendance.

    A better argument would be that the Department of Education should follow up on children who leave one school and aren't registered with another. Whether that's possible with schools in the north or not I don't know, but surely it would be easy to get up a system?

    When Tusla met with the child they assumed was Kyran they didn't know he was missing for so long, all of that information came to light when he was reported missing after his mother fled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    That’s fair enough if they didn’t know about school. In my head, I thought tusla got involved with the family because of the absences, but they may have been involved for other reasons of course. We just don’t know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,641 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Another poster says Tusla can't possibly know whether a child presented is the actual child because reasons.

    In that case, what on earth are taxpayers paying Tusla to do anyway? If all they can do is vaguely look at a child and say,; Yep, seems legit, with no way of checking on whether it's even the same child, nor whether the child is at the school the family say he's at, then how can they be overworked?

    You can't both be right, surely?

    In fact, why not just shut Tusla down, since all they're able to do, according to that poster, is tick boxes anyway, and you think they're overwhelmed doing even that? Think of all the money the taxpayer would save, and since they can't be expected to check up on children anyway, what difference would it make?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,014 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,615 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    What do you suggest is used to positively identify a child - fingerprints, a microchip, a scan of their iris, DNA sample? I'd even be wary of a child's photo being attached to their file, what if they're hacked?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Tusla are useless and should be disbanded, as should a lot of the public services.

    Garda, hospitals, Tusla, they're all putting peoples lives at risk or wasting taxpayers money



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah yes, the Tory playbook.

    Underfund key areas of a public body until people call for its disbanding and/or privatisation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,641 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    This is kind of funny. No photographs? Is this a general thing, or is Tusla uniquely incompetent in safeguarding? (The irony of that!) Because if not, then how do you think passports work?

    Anyway as I said ages back, if this is really such a problem (it isn't) then a teacher who's had the child in class could be invited to the case meeting. This happens anyway, in the north at least, so I don't see why it all seems to be SOOOO difficult in the south.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,641 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Apparently they can't even be expected to know which children they're meant to be safeguarding. So at what point does it become reasonable to ask what actual use they can possibly be in those conditions?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Tusla cannot just “invite” a teacher to a child welfare meeting. Are you serious like? Maybe the postman and the bin man might like to sit in as well.

    This is absolutely bonkers stuff.

    The passport analogy is hilarious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    It does beg the question of what do they (tusla) actually do though? Like if a family is reported for abuse/neglect etc, what happens then? In this case it just seems to have been a meeting and nothing else, is that the norm?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,615 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Do you think Tusla should only speak to a child with a passport? What about children who don't have one? Not all children are brought abroad on holiday.

    I'm not in any way defending Tusla, but you first suggested they interviewed Kryan's mother and the child presented as Kryan because of his poor attendance, then you changed tack.

    There is a legal obligation for parents of children under 16 to ensure their child receives an education, either in school or in the home. Kyran's school was told he was moving to a school in the north and this was never followed up on. I think that should be in the remit of the Department of Education, not the school Kryan had previously attended. You can't just randomly ring schools and say you're X, principal of Y school and expect them to confirm whether or not a child is attending, it should be a formal procedure carried out by the department when a child is removed from the register of one school and not enrolled in another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭csirl


    This does happen here. The teacher IS invited to case conferences by Tusla and a photo of the child IS circulated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭csirl


    On the Northern Ireland thing - there is an information sharing agreement between Tusla and their NI equivalent. When a child moves across the border the old location informs the new location, files are transferred and the case allocated to a team in the receiving liocation.

    If Tusla becomes aware a child on their books has moved, transferred school or is even spending significant time in NI they verify that the child is, in facr, in NI and NI equivalent is in contact with the family. I



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭csirl


    A minor having a child is an automatic Mandated Report to Tusla. Would automatically be reported by the health professionals involved in the pregnancy/birth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,641 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Err no that’s not what I said at all.

    I was asking whether the poster thought any part of the administration - such as the passport office - shouldn’t really have a photo of a child as this would be a security risk. I imagine the school has one too. Ours do here anyway.

    Because if the passport office, or a school, can be trusted to handle children’s photographs safely, why can’t Tusla?

    Basically the idea that Tusla can do any real safeguarding work if it is legally unable to ascertain the identity of the child it has concerns about is such obvious nonsense that I’m genuinely amused that so many posters seem determined to believe this.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,489 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    They're definitely not underfunded, just lazy.

    The ''bike shed'' is a prime example of public service value for money



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,211 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Drag in something utterly irrelevant to throw shade in adolescent fashion. OK.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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