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Ireland's Refugee Policy cont. Please read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,048 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    People like this is the reason why we're in this mess.

    Dublin Jungle

    Rural Ireland getting the blunt of this with Hotels being taken over etc etc

    These people that come here are benefit tourists, plain and simple. They come here because other countries refuse them and they see Ireland as a soft touch and boy they're right



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Well there is no secret about it, all open to anyone who wants to know



  • Posts: 121 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I believe the CSO the official body responsible for statistics. Once again:

    https://tomhealy.ie/immigration-and-crime-is-there-a-link-in-ireland/

    '' Here in Ireland there are no published data on the incidence of crime by nationality or ethnic background.  The Central Statistics office, which has access to data on crime from administrative records of the Garda Síochána has stated that user needs in crime statistics that are not currently met include ‘nationality, citizenship and ethnicity of crime victims and offenders’ ''



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Really? Even those people born here who are not Irish?

    Why do we have a responsibility to them more then other non Irish, in your opinion?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Taken from your quote

    'Indeed, the Garda Síochána have not reported any increase in crime in the immediate vicinity of reception centres or locations where above average numbers of asylum seekers live'



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    'Sticking your head in the sand'

    Says the poster who choses to ignore the Esri research showing IPAs to be as active in the labour market as the general pop.

    All while pushing Putin's propaganda, designed to weaken the EU project which has benefited this country so much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 970 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    The CSO may track and record data on crime but they are not an oversight body for how An Garda Siochana or the Courts record such data. Again, I'm interested to know if there is such a body, which provides an oversight function on how convictions, in particular, are recorded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dh1985


    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rqcs/reviewofthequalityofrecordedcrimestatistics2023/userneedsforrecordedcrimestatistics/

    Conclusion

    The CSO's outputs are designed to try to meet user needs as far as possible given the constraints of data availability and the demands of statistical quality. The CSO continues to develop the statistical products it compiles from PULSE data in line with user needs and in response to verified improvements in data quality, for example, the relationship between victims and perpetrators for sexual and assault offences based on good quality data collected by AGS on same.

    In summary the following user needs are considered, for the most part to be met:

    • Counts of recorded crime incidents classified by offence type, reference period, and AGS administrative areas.
    • Proportions of crime incidents which result in detection and those which lead to charge or summons classified by offence type, reference period, and AGS administrative areas.
    • Proportions of different sanction types administered to suspected offenders classified by offence type and reference period.
    • Counts of recorded victims of serious crime offence types classified by offence type and reference period, age and sex of victim.
    • Counts of recorded suspected offenders of serious crime offence types classified by offence type and reference period, age and sex of suspected offender.
    • Relationship between victim and perpetrator.
    • Discriminatory motives including hate crime, domestic abuse, use of weapons, cyber-related crime.

    The following user needs are not currently met:

    • Statistics on prosecutions and convictions by specific offence (i.e., Act or Article).
    • The nationality, citizenship and ethnicity of crime victims and offenders.

    Last line would suggest the powers that be don't have the data to suggest there is no correlation between Crime increase and Asylum seekers or vice versa. So how you or Helen mc entee can suggest otherwise is no different than the posters here suggesting AS are more prevalent to criminality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Research I've shared here several times shows people chose European countries predominantly on the basis of having friends and family connections, job opportunities, strong economies and stable democracies.

    Welfare tourism is yet another discredited myth.

    But why let truth get in the way of (Putin's) narrative.

    I'm not from Dublin either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,159 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    The data is there actually, they just choose to not make it available.

    I submitted a FOI request around something similar (foreign born recipients of various benefits) and the request was turned down.

    It's pretty clear the government want to control the messaging on migration at all costs.



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  • Posts: 121 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ...



  • Posts: 121 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The only way to know if there is any correlation between crime and migration is to actually collect, record and collate this information. This is not being done. Therefore it cannot be said with any degree of certainty or accuracy if there is a correlation or not. That's how statistics work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    That the data isn't shared with the CSO via the pulse system doesn't mean that it wouldn't be collected or analysed by other means.

    On a practical level it wouldn't make sense to have it in the pulse system I would think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Because they were born here.

    It's really not that difficult to work out.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    AGS have a number of oversight bodies.

    Who exactly do you think should oversee the courts service and What is the issue with them recording convictions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 92,254 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Was the CityWest hotel in Dublin not mentioned a few times for AGS attending to as fights there?

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I'm at a loss here. You think people born here, even those that are not Irish are somehow different to those that move here?

    Wee have a responsibility to those born here, even non Irish, but not those that live here?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    So you don't agree with what you quoted? Why quote something if you don't agree with it?



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    So? Gardai attend fights all over the country everyday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dh1985


    Why would it not make sense to collect and store data on the pulse system . Data around criminals and their backgrounds. This is the system that is used for policing the country. Surely this is the means it should be collected under. As for the other means avaliable for analysis, there is none. the pulse system is the central recording system used by the guards. If it's not collected here, it's not collected. Back of envelopes don't count



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,922 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 92,254 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    It is not a safe town anymore (Ballaghaderreen), the government has failed

    Independent TD, Michael Fitzmaurice, has appealed for calm in the Co Roscommon town of Ballaghaderreen after an incident during the week, and called for Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner, Drew Harris to “come down” to the town to allay people’s fears. 

    He told Shannonside radio that the Garda station in the town seemed closed “a lot of the time” – asserting that the station needed to be “open on a continuous basis”.

    “The promises that were made over the last number of years – Roderic O’Gorman made promises, Fine Gael made promises – what was going to be done in the line of extra policing, extra integration, extra services being brought to Ballaghaderreen, have not been delivered on, and we are now getting phone calls from people, especially from elderly people who aren’t comfortable walking the streets and that’s not the way any town or any society should be,” the TD said.

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I think it would put an unnecessary burden on working gardai.

    How long do you think they should spend ascertaining the nationality, immigration status and ethnicity of every single suspect and victim?

    Let's have them collect employment history, religious persuasion, relationship status, education history while we're at it shall we?

    Some things I'd think are better done through sample studies.



  • Posts: 121 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're not making much sense here. The point is the CSO says the data is not there. So no conclusions can be made. I do agree with scientifically collecting these statistics though. We should be able to measure both the positive and negative effects of migration to help inform future policies.

    Out of interest, do you think there is any value in accurately collecting statistics on migration and crime?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dh1985


    All data collected is recorded on pulse. Is that what you are saying. because as linked above nationality is not recorded. So how you can state Crime and AS status has no correlation when the data required to make that assumption is not recorded



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dh1985


    Name, age, address. Wow what a criminal profile that is that the AGS are building.

    Nationality is a key piece of information that should be recorded. This is basic policing. If the guards don't have the where with all to determine nationality relatively quickly then it doesn't say much for our systems of data collection across multiple departmental agencies.

    E



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    You know, just because you keep repeating it does not make it true. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭Lotus Flower


    If AGS don’t record nationality etc how can they state with certainty that there’s no increase in crime?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,123 ✭✭✭jackboy


    If they record address then they will have.the stats on how many living in asylum seeker accommodation are committing crimes. Would that not cover it?



This discussion has been closed.
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