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Gun recommendations

  • 27-10-2024 02:36PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Farmer. Inundated with deer. See crowd of 2-15 opening grazing weekly.

    Thinking about taking up shooting myself.

    1. Gun recommendation for beginner. Have some experience with a shot gun.
    2. Do I need to join a club?


«13

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Howdy and welcome to the shooting forums.
    1 - Based on your post I'm presuming deer only, so anything in a deer legal caliber will suit.
    Deer legal caliber specs below:

    image.png

    The most common are 243 and 308. I would personally steer clear of 22-250 as only some of the rounds you can get for it are deer legal.

    Good starter deer rifle brands would be something like Bergara B14, Remington 700(older ones for preference), Tikka T3(and T3x), Howa 1500, etc. Best bet would be call into a few gun dealers and see what they have in a deer legal caliber and that fits you well, feel good in the hand and in the shoulder, etc.
    List of dealers by county here:
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057601456/registered-firearms-dealers/p1

    If it is your first firearm you will need to prove that you are "competent" to use it as part of the application, which here usually means a competency course(1 day in duration). These are run by Country Sports Ireland, the IFA(who do a discount if you are a member I believe), individual gun dealers and the NARGC. I do not recommend the latter because the course content/quality can vary widely from club to club that runs them.

    2 - Nope, you do not need to join a club, especially if it is for shooting on your own land.

    You will need to fulfill the criteria as set out here to get a deer hunting licence(in addition to your firearms licence):
    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/sport-and-leisure/deer-licences/

    One note on that, you will need to do the deer stalking course before applying for the deer hunting licence, so you might enquire with a deer course provider(CSI, IFA, etc) whether that proves competency with a firearm for the purposes of firearms licences(I would think it would do so since there is a firearms theory portion and a live shooting portion of the deer course). Then you wouldn't need to pay to do both competency and deer stalker courses.

    ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
    Now with all the above in mind if that does sound like a lot(it is, to an extent. Competency/deer stalking course, firearms licence, cost of firearm(and silencer, scope etc if chosen), deer hunting licence) but there is a thread here where you can advertise for deer hunters:
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058285623/deer-leases-2024-2025/p1

    Mostly it is lads looking for leases but you can post there advertising a lease to shoot on your land, just note the rules for posting in the first post.
    -——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

    That all said if the above makes sense then awesome, if not then post up some more questions or if you are wondering about any aspect(silencers, scopes, references, calibers, etc) then ask away, the posters here are a wealth of knowledge and very willing to help someone starting off.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Can’t really add to the above other than practice. So you can hit the deer correctly. From what distance etc

    Ask around locally and see can you go out with them to suss it out etc

    Can’t argue with the recommendations above either, I have 2x tikka and they are very accurate but only 22 and 223 in my possession.

    Budget comes into play too, so you can get the best set up that you can. RFD should be able to put together a package and they may have second hand packages too.

    Also keep an eye on the for same section here. Great deals pop regularly and I’ve bought and sold many items here no problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    great info lads. There are a couple of licenced fellas I regularly send videos and locations to; No success recently.

    It’s not really “stalking I am planning”. I have a 30 acre forest that borders another 50 acre forest. With grazing growling along it. As I go to check cattle; deer are opening grazing. They scatter when they see me, but I don’t be trying to creep up. Maybe I am far over estimating my ability but what would be my chances of hitting a deer from say 150-200 yards through a gap in the ditch with 30-60 seconds to set myself up.


    Looks like a starting point is a competence course and a safe big enough to hold.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Ah, by stalking I just mean deer hunting, sorry if that caused confusion ;)

    I'd recommend you start with contacting an org like the IFA and seeing if their deer hunting course would satisfy competence.

    Even in the unlikely event it doesn't it'll give you a wealth of information on deer hunting and the laws surrounding it here, and the shooting portion can be completed with a loaner rifle, which in turn would give you an idea of a rifle you might want to buy.

    Just my take on it, largely to save the cost and time of 2 courses(competency and deer hunting) vs 1, especially since the deer hunting one is mandatory for the deer hunting license. Which is mandatory to hunt deer even on your own land :-P

    Bit of a mandatory overload there but you get my meaning.

    And yes you will definitely need a safe for a deer rifle application. Do shop around on that front, often dealers will get in used safes when lads upgrade so some good deals to be had on used ones, and as gumbo says on our own for sale forum too.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭Gman2021


    If you wanted a hand with them you can shoot me a pm.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    looks like I have a good bit of reading and research to do. Appreciate those who responded. Not time to read in detail and respond yet.


    Last simple question. If I bought direct from gun shop do I need to have the licence for the gun first before they will sell to me?


    Hadn’t realised there was a for sale section. Might gather my thoughts and post a wanted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    Where in the country are you? Like I say there a few people I have invited and they haven’t gotten one (or at least haven’t told me in case I want a cut, which I don’t).


    out of curiosity is a deer worth anything?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    Teslas and guns; you are popping up with a lot of knowledge to me all of a sudden. 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭Gman2021


    I’m in the midlands but travel to shoot a few spots.

    If they’re shooting enough of them and bringing them to the factory they would be getting 1.20-1.60 a kilo but if they actually make anything off them is another story. I always drop venison into any farmers who I shoot for if they like it. A few say they’re not into it some just want rid of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    worth a few Bob. This is the kinda view I am getting of them 4 times a week at dusk. Snips from video or resolution terrible on zoom.


    IMG_8317.jpeg IMG_8319.jpeg IMG_8316.jpeg IMG_8318.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭Gman2021


    can’t really tell from the photos but they look like fallow. Great eating and not as hard work as reds.

    Those look like mostly does so they’ll come into season from Nov 1st.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    There was one in the crowd with large antlers. Can see on the video when running but assume mostly female alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    well if get a M3 I will be adding a toe hitch and………. using it; also not the typical 😀



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Hitting them won’t be the problem at that distance. Once you m ow your gun, ammo and aim point. Or what you zero the scope to etc

    It’s hitting it correctly as to not cause undue suffering etc that will be the hard part.

    I don’t hunt deer so maybe one of the lads can guide the “kill area” on a deer, what’s the radius of the circle etc that you’d have to hit at that distance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭alex90


    Im based in cork city, willing to help out if needed!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭lmk123


    how long had this 2 day course been necessary, I already have 2 guns, I think it’s a joke having to do this course if you’re experienced, I had trouble with deer a few months ago too ripping down wire and driving cattle mental, if the deer population is such a problem maybe they should do away with the 2 day course, 2 days is far too much time to expect people to give especially if they’re already experienced with guns



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    So the process buying from a gun shop would be you go and pick the gun, put a deposit down and the dealer will give you a note with a serial number and their dealer number.

    You then fill out a firearms certificate application form(FCA1) and hand it in to your local garda station.

    Then they will send a crime prevention officer out to check you have a safe, make security recommendations etc.

    Then you will get your grant letter in the post, which is essentially a request for payment of €80. Pay that and your licence will arrive by post within a week.

    Bring your licence to the dealer and they will hand over your firearm in exchange of the balance of payment.

    In short, yes ;)

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Last year or two it became mandatory for anyone who hadn't previously held a deer hunting licence.

    It is somewhat of a farce, and money maker for those running it.

    I think the stated goal is to ensure the new deer hunter will have a baseline of knowledge from the course, but I also suspect it was a move from the dozen deer orgs around to make money and from AGS to put another barrier between individuals and "high powered" rifles.

    On top of competency, reason, and the firearms certificate of course. :-P

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,816 ✭✭✭893bet


    That makes sense. I guess it’s should work similar if buying second hand?

    Do the deal but seller holds till buyer has valid licence? (In theory).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Yup that is one of the ways it can work.
    You can also involve a dealer and the seller, drops it into a dealer that is mutually agreed and when you get your licence you go collect it from the dealer.
    Dealer will charge for the storage but it sometimes works out better for the seller if they want to substitute the firearm they are selling for another one, and don't want to have to wait on the buyer to get their licence.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭lmk123


    I think you summed it up with money maker. It’s similar to the safe pass taking an entire day, the equivalent in England can be done online in 15 minutes. Everything here has to take longer and cost more, all to justify someone’s handy job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭Rescueme0007


    Plenty of good advice already.

    If you've previously held firearms licence for shotguns you'll not have to prove competency, as it's all about safety which have already demonstrated. You would think that would allow the AGS to expedite your application for a firearms licence for a centre fire rifle (it won't). Apply for your Deer Hunting Licence as soon as possible (on line) but you'll need the make, model and chambering of your proposed firearm (get them of the seller), submit the application and take a screen shot and print it off for the AGS firearms application. As previously mentioned .243 and .308 are good calibres but if you get the offer of something else in a deer suitable chambering such as 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5X55SE, .270 etc., they'll all do the job (the .243 and the 6.5's with very little fuss). You'll need a couple of referee's, the details of your doctor and a passport photo to support your firearms application, the AGS will also require the contact address's, telephone numbers and (God help us) the date of birth of each of the referees. AGS can be extremely slow to process your application, so give them no excuse to put it to the bottom of the pile. I'm currently in the process of renewing two firearms certs and speaking with the local FO he indicated that there are a great number of renewals due before the end of December so AGS may be under a bit of pressure.

    Finally, before you do the deer hunting course, try and get some practice with a centrefire rifle. Generally the course providers can provide a firearm for the range approval part of the course but a little preparation will go a long way to establishing your proficiency. Best of luck.🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭lmk123


    can someone here confirm if the following is correct or not. I was talking to a farmer today who said he bought a 308 2 years ago for shooting deer on his own land. He has only had a shotgun for a good number of years prior. He told me that he didn’t have to do the 2 day course because “farmers don’t need to if it’s for shooting deer on their own land”, apparently there’s some dispensation for this. Does anyone know if this is correct, I really hope it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭alex90


    Ive never heard of that before. The requirement for a hcap ir equivalent course as a condition for getting a deer licence is 3 years old i think.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    I have heard that before but never learned whether it was actually law or spurious.
    The version I heard was landowners didn't need a deer licence to shoot deer provided it was only on the land they owned.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭lmk123


    music to my ears, I have to find out more so. Would the NARGC be a good place to start do you think? Apologies but I’m not a member of any of these organisations or not a gun club member either, I just shoot my own place and when asked by neighbours & friends on their land. Thanks



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Sorry I don't want you to be under the wrong impression, that is what I heard but haven't been able to find it in either the wildlife acts or the firearms acts, so I would not be planning on pursuing that path until you have a definite answer, along with a look at the actual law which underpins the answer.

    I doubt the NARGC would have an idea, but you might reach out to IFA countryside, since they have a large number of farmers they would likely already have asked the question.
    https://ifacountryside.ie/

    You could also reach out to the NPWS and see what they say, since there is something called a Section 42 licence which allows deer to be shot out of season if they are doing serious damage:
    https://www.npws.ie/licencesandconsents/disturbance/stop-damage-flora-and-fauna-wild-animals

    At least one of the two is likely to know, and since the NPWS issue the licence and you have to be the landowner to apply for it you would likely get an answer there.
    But again get it in writing, preferably with a link to the appropriate legislation to ensure you are legally covered.
    It will also help you justify your reasoning to the Guards when you go for a licence if NPWS have sent you such an email/letter.

    There was also this article from 2016 calling for farmers to be allowed to cull deer on their own land:
    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/should-farmers-be-allowed-to-shoot-deer-without-a-licence/

    Which I suspect was a call to do so without using Section 42 licences or similar.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 705 ✭✭✭lmk123


    that’s a great help thanks. If I get a definitive answer I’ll put it up here.



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