5.1 System problems

Rael · 23-10-2024 03:13PM #1

Hi RS,

I was wondering if you could provide some advice.

I've currently got a Yamaha 3900 Receiver and a Kef 3005 5.1 speaker package which I picked up from you CastleCourt many years ago, probably early 2009.

They've been brilliant and I love their sound, but today the sound on the centre channel / speaker was fading away. I disconnected and reconnected it and it seemed okay, but then the front right started failing intermittently. I think I've sorted that, but the subwoofer is receiving power but there's no sound from it so I've ordered a new cable to test that.

If the worst comes to the worst, what receiver and speakers would you recommend as a replacement? Maybe given the age of the setup there's a soundbar / package option?

I'd like to be able to connect the follwoing devices: PS5, Xbox One, Nvidia Shield, Nintendo Switch, FreeSat Box, Saorview Box,
Oppo Blu Ray Player, but I'm happy to run some of these through a HDMI switch to save on inputs if necessary.

I'd prefer slightly smaller rear speakers if possible due to the layout of the room. For info, the room is 8 feet wide * 16 feet long

Thanks for any help and advice,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 23-10-2024 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058377426/5-1-system-problems

Hi Ken.

Sorry to hear you are having issues with your setup, it has served you well for 15 years and they have been many advancements in AV receivers over the years.

You should check out the Denon AVRX2800 which is priced at €678 and will handle all of your devices. It can even handle 120FPS for the PS5.

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-206444-denon-avrx2800-black-dolby-atmos-and-dts-x-av-receiver.aspx

There is also a bundle deal on this with the Monitor Audio Mass 5.1 pack coming in at €998 delivered.

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-15267-denon-avr-x2800h-black-monitor-audio-mass-5-1-mist-dolby-atmos-and-dts-x-av-receiver-with-mass-5-1-speaker-package.aspx

Let me know your thoughts on this.

Rael · 23-10-2024 06:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122754258#Comment_122754258

Thanks Kenny, I've reconnected everything and I'll give a new subwoofer cable a try.

How would those combinations compare to my own amp and speakers in terms of quality. Appreciate that technology improves and prices come down over the years.

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 24-10-2024 11:29AM

Hey Rael.

I feel the Denon 2800 will be better than your current amp due to the advances in home audio technology, although if you are worried you could go for the Denon 3800 which is coming in at €1199

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-206446-denon-avcx3800-black-dolby-atmos-and-dts-x-av-amplifier.aspx

The Monitor Audio Mass 5.1 is a great little 5.1 pack and originally retailed at around €999.
You current KEF 3000 pack where very good in their day so it would be a hard call between these two.

You could maybe check out the Focal Sib Evo which is a 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos speaker pack. It has the Atmos speakers built into the front left and right speakers and would be a great upgrade over the KEF's.
Currently priced at €949

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-203199-focal-sib-evo-5-1-2-dolby-pack-black-dolby-atmos-speaker-package.aspx

The SIB EVO pack can also be ran off of the Denon 2800

Rael · 24-10-2024 01:12PM

Thanks for the other recommendations Kenny. On the topic of the MASS speakers, could I buy another two speakers and get the benefit of 7.1 surround sound? Their size would look perfect for this.

Also, given my fondness for, and previous good experience, with Yamaha (I've had three in total, the first being an all in one setup, and the other two from yourselves - the 3900 and the other was an open box RX-750 for the bedroom, ironically with a set of Monitor Audio speakers as well), how would the Yamaha RXA4A stand up to my own receiver and both the Denons, and what's your view on that (would it work well) with either the MASS or Focals?

Secondly, what're the positives of Denon over the other brands?

Last question, is there any issue using my existing speaker cables (from my own perspective the advantage is it's already trunked and hidden) as any new speaker for a 5.1 setup would be going in the same place, or is there any benefit in new cabling with a new setup?

Thanks for your help.

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 24-10-2024 04:07PM

Hey Rael.

The Mass speakers can't be purchased separately unfortunately and only as a 5.1 pack.

The Yamaha RXA4 is a great amplifier, I only offered the Denon as it is the most popular and 5 star reviewed in What Hifi.
The RXA4 is currently priced at €1448.
The RXA4 will be miles better than your current amp, better than the 2800 and most likely better than the 3800 as it is in the bracket above it.

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-205889-yamaha-rxa4a-black-dolby-atmos-and-dts-x-av-receiver.aspx

The Mass speakers maybe a little underwhelming for the RXA4 but there really isn't anything else at their size.

In terms of changing cable, it depend on the cable you currently have. It also has had 15 years of use so it might be time to upgrade it, although with it being trucked it will have been protected.
Something like the QED Micro perhaps.

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-11552-qed-performance-micro-speaker-cable-per-metre.aspx

Rael · 25-10-2024 12:30AM

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for the extra info, my system started acting up again this evening so I'll do some more research and then come back to you in the next day or two.

Just wondering, when you mentioned the Mass speakers can't be bought separately, are these the same speakers as in the Mass 5.1 package?

(That's why I was asking in case you were wondering)

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-13798-monitor-audio-mass-satellite-white-mist-satellite-speaker.aspx

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 25-10-2024 03:39PM

Hi Ken.

I should have said that the Mass single speakers are now discontinued but I have double checked and we have several left in stock in the white finish. Once these go there will be no more available.
There is currently enough to add in 2 to make a 7.1 system.

Rael · 28-10-2024 04:13AM

Hi Kenny,

Just thinking about this a little more and definitely missed the thump of the subwoofer this weekend while playing Space Marine II for the first and watching some films while stuck in stereo mode.

Is there anything from the other speaker packages that you'd recommend to get the most out of the Denon's or the Yamaha?

How would the likes of the Wharfedale DX3s, Q Acoustics 3010is, Cambridge Min22s, Min12s compare to the likes of the Monitor MASS and Focals with either the 2800, 3800 or RXA4. Also to possibly to take another step up, what about the Monitor Audio Bronze 50s?

Also do you have any of these on display / as test setup in the Belfast shop?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I'm covering all the bases before making a decision.

Thanks for your patience

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 28-10-2024 11:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122771020#Comment_122771020

Hi Rael.

The DX3, 3010i and Bronze 50 5.1 packs are better than the Mass as you have bigger speakers with bigger drivers and better build quality. The larger speaker will have their won bass drivers as well as tweeters, the smaller speakers will only have one driver to product both high and low frequencies.

For my home cinema room I use Old Monitor Audio Bronze speakers (I had them for the guts of 20 years and still going strong).

We do have a lot of these items on display so a demo would be possible.
I don't have an RXA4 currently for demo as we only have one left which is brand new boxed but no issue on the 2800 or 3800.
If you are planning on calling for a demo we would need a few days notice to ensure we have the items and to get it set up for your arrival.

Rael · 28-10-2024 03:46PM

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for replying again. I've been doing some more research and having looked at specs and sizes, I'm leaning towards your original suggestion of one of the Denon's with the Monitor Audio Mass speakers, I just wasn't getting my head around some aspects of it and replacing my Kefs.

If I went with the Denon 3800 and bought additional Mass satellites and mounts, would they be suitable for use as ceiling speakers in an Atmos setup?

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 28-10-2024 04:37PM

Hi Rael.

The extra mass speaker can be used for Dolby Atmos if you wish.
You could mount them high on the wall and face them downwards into the room.

Proper ceiling speakers need installed into the ceiling and not everyone can cut holes in their ceilings to do so, also running wires into tthe ceiling could be an issue for most.
You can also get upward firing speakers like the Eltax ATMS priced at €179 which are designed for Atmos.

https://euro.richersounds.ie/p-203576-eltax-monitor-atm-atmos-dolby-atmos-speakers-per-pair.aspx?swapstore=1

Rael · 01-11-2024 03:53PM

Hi Kenny,

I’m happy to go with your recommendation for the Denon X2800 receiver and Monitor Audio Mass 5.1 Package.

As nearly everything in my cabinet is black, is there any chance you could swap out the mist colour speaker 5.1 set for a black set please?

I also plan to get 2 additional satellites (I don’t mind that these are the mist version as they’ll be mounted on a cream painted wall), 4 MASM wall mounts and 20 metres of QED Micro Performance speaker cable.

If I put the order through the website can you do the swap (if possible) or would I have to talk to you directly?

Thanks for the recommendations and help,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 01-11-2024 04:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122787143#Comment_122787143

Hey Rael.

There in no problem in switching the Mass pack in mist to the Black version at the same bundle price.
Only issue now is I only have one of the Satellites left in the Mist. Seems someone purchase a few of them via our website.
There are none in Black and no more will be available in the Mist finish either…..

You can order via our website and I can switch the colour to Black if that is easier or I can give you a call to finalise things up.

Let me know your thoughts.

Rael · 01-11-2024 05:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122787278#Comment_122787278

Hi Kenny,

I've sourced a separate mist satellite and placed an order with you for the majority of the items.

The order number is: 163949, grateful if you can swap out the mists for the black set please

If there's a problem with getting the individual satellite that I've ordered separately (my luck is terrible at the moment after starting work on the house, literally everything that can go wrong has and nothing's worked out at cost) would there be a problem with returning the single satellite I get from you (unopened) until I can work out how to complete the 7.1 setup? Hopefully it doesn't come to that but just wanted to check.

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 01-11-2024 06:47PM

Hey Ken.

I have everything sorted at his end for you and switched the Mass to the black version for you.
There is no issue in returning the single mist speaker if you can not source the 2nd one.

Everything will ship on Tuesday and once collected by the courier we will email you over the tracking details.

Have a great weekend.

Rael · 02-11-2024 03:20PM

Hi Kenny,

If I ordered two additional wall mounts and a set of Mass black speaker stands via the website, could you add those to the main order for delivery at the same time please?

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 02-11-2024 06:22PM

Hi Rael.

No problem on the extra brackets but there are no Mass Stands available at all unfortunately.
These are now also discontinued :(

Rael · 02-11-2024 09:15PM

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for that, they were still listed on the website so I thought they were available.

I've decided to go with a slightly different approach to the room, so could you cancel and refund the 4 MASM speaker wall mounts from the order please? Makes it easier than me returning them.

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 03-11-2024 02:11PM

Hey Rael.

I'll get the brackets cancelled and refunded back to you today.
It may take a few days for the funds to arrive back into your account though.

Rael · 03-11-2024 03:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122794163#Comment_122794163

Hi Kenny and thanks,

Just checking, the MASM mounts came to €108 for the four mounts. €25 each for the blacks, €29 each for the silvers and I ordered four - two of each colour.

The refund invoice only says €89.77. Can you check that out please, should be €108.

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: Kenny · 03-11-2024 03:56PM

Hi Ken.

The receipt from our Till is in sterling….. Our system unfortunately converts everything to sterling at this end but I have 100% refunded you back €108 Euro as you had paid in Euro.

Rael · 05-11-2024 12:36PM

Hi Kenny,

Sorry to be an absolute pain but can you hold off shipping my order for a day or two please? As I suspected, and as per my luck at the moment, I've most likely been let down by another retailer in getting the 7th Mass Satellite and should have confirmation this evening.

If so, can you recommend a pair of speakers (for rears or additional surrounds) that could complement the main Mass 5.1s to give me a 7.1 setup?

Also, and just a thought as an alternative, how would a Radius setup compare to the Mass? I'm thinking it might be easier put together a package and better quality to just go with a separates setup and just bite the bullet cost wise. If so, is the X2800 still the receiver to go for?

Again, sorry.

Thanks,

Ken

Rael · 05-11-2024 02:38PM

Hi Kenny,

A few minutes after I posted, Steven M rang me to say the cable I ordered is out of stock so I explained the overall situation to him and we agreed to put the order on hold until we can work out the best options.

I’ve also just been told that the other retailer can’t get the 7th Mass satellite and has just refunded me, which leaves me in a bit of a dilemma ☹

I’ve attached a diagram of my room for info. It’s 8 feet wide and 16 feet long, sitting position is about 10 feet from the TV. I see three possible options from what we’ve discussed but happy to hear others.

Option 1 is to stick with the X2800H and Mass system for a basic 5.1 setup, however my head’s been turned by the upgrade bug :D

Option 2 is to go with the X2800H and Focals for a 5.1, bounced Atmos setup. Will the 2800H be okay for this?

Option 3 is to go for a receiver and a normal 7.1 setup (no Atmos speakers as height mounting isn’t really an option) - See room diagram below, I understand from Steven that a Monitor Audio Radius setup would be a significant upgrade. Can you have a look at the diagram below and let me know your thoughts.

My main questions are:

a. Would you still recommend the X2800H with the Radiuses (Radii?) for this setup?

b. Front Left and Right – Would you recommend MA Radius 90s?

c. Centre – Would you recommend MA 200 or 225?

d. Subwoofer – What would you recommend?

e. Rears – What would you recommend - 90s? Would the 45s here take away from the system?

f. Surrounds – Surrounds would be wall mounted and approximately 2 feet away from where we sit on the couch, would MA 45s work here (given they are more discrete for wall mounting) if the fronts and rears are 90s?

Again, thanks for your patience and help, I just want to make sure I’ve considered all the options.

Thanks & regards,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: DavidS · 05-11-2024 06:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122802571#Comment_122802571

Hi Ken,

Thanks for getting back to us - Kenny is off today so I hope you don't mind me replying on his behalf.

The Radius system would be a huge upgrade in sound quality over both the Mass and the Focals - they're still a compact satellite speaker but the cabinet design and drivers are a step above the others and would be the best sounding small speaker solution we stock.

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can:

A. The AVRX2800 would still be a great amp to go for for the Radii, it matches really well with satellite systems and I would go up to the AVCX3800 if you were putting on a set of floorstanders or larger bookshelf speakers to get the most out of them.

B. Radius 90s would definitely be the best front option as they would give a beefier sound over the 45s for both movies and music.

C. Both are great speakers but if you can get away with the size of it the Radius 225 would be the better option on the centre as it'll give a wider dispersion for the centre channel than the Radius 200.

D. For the sub I would go with the Radius 380 which would match in well with the rest of the Radius speakers. It has a powerful 200 watt amp so wouldn't be overpowering in the room.

https://www.richersounds.ie/p-12553-monitor-audio-radius-380-black-black-subwoofer.aspx

E. I would recommend the Radius 90s for the rears - the 45s wouldn't take away from the system and would still give a great sound but the output of the rear will match the front so the surround sound should be a bit more immersive.

F. You could put them next to you however I would even consider mounting them high up above the TV and angled towards your listening position as you can use them as Atmos speakers as well?

Please don't hesitate to drop us a post if you have any further queries.

Kind regards

David

Rael · 09-11-2024 03:37PM

Hi Kenny & DavidS,

I'd like to go with the following 5.1 setup please:

Receiver: Denon AVR X2800H Black;
Centre: Monitor Audio Radius 225 Black;
Front: Monitor Audio Radius 90 Black;
Rear: Monitor Audio Radius 90 Black; and
Sub: Monitor Audio Radius 380 Black

Is there any sort of deal or discount you can offer for buying the above together?

Also since I've already paid for a few other bits, can you let me know what's the best way to go forward? Do we cancel the previous order or can I just pay the difference?

I'll experiment with my remaining working Kef speakers to figure out if I want to go for a 5.1.2 Atmos or a standard 7.1 setup. I need to see how speaker placement will work as I've to factor how the door opens into the room and a press hiding the fuseboard and smart meter (it's a garage conversion), so I'll come back to you about the pair of Radius 45s once I've messed around a little.

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: DavidS · 09-11-2024 07:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122820410#Comment_122820410

Thanks for getting back to us Ken.

The normal retail on that bundle is £2197/2514 euro but I could offer it at £1850/2220 euro and that's with us upgrading you to the Denon AVRX2800DAB (the retail price above includes the AVRX2800 so the bundle price with the AVRX2800DAB is a bargain!)

We can cancel down the order you've placed with us and charge the difference.

If you're free tomorrow I can give you a call to get that processed?

Kind regards

David

Rael · 10-11-2024 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122821116#Comment_122821116

Hi David,

Thanks for the offer but unfortunately DAB isn't available here as they were shut off due to lack of uptake and use.

Grateful if you can let me know of any other offers that would be available.

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: DavidS · 10-11-2024 06:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122823186#Comment_122823186

Hi Ken,

Thanks for getting back to me.

The pricing would be the same on the bundle if you went for the standard AVRX2800 - we just had a bit more movement on the DAB version so included that in the bundle for you.

Were there other products you were looking at as alternatives or would you be interested in the above bundle with the discounted pricing?

Kind regards

David

Rael · 11-11-2024 03:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122824211#Comment_122824211

Hi David,

Thanks for replying.

Instead of upgrading to the DAB model, could you do a six year warranty on the regular X2800 and speakers instead?

Also, out of interest, would the X3800 be a significant upgrade from the X2800 in terms of sound quality (with the Radii)?

Would you be able to do a deal for a package including an X3800 and speakers with the extended warranty on both?

Thanks,

Ken

Richersounds.ie: John · 11-11-2024 10:48AM

Hi Rael,

we had already built in a significant discount on the bundle pricing and we don't have any further movement on the standard AVRX2800 (we are already over 100€ cheaper before discount than any of our local competition as far as I can see) - but we have done a deal that allow us to upgrade Customers to the X2800DAB version - On the 3800 we could not squeeze it in at the same price, but happy to do you a bundle price including the X3800 if you would like a quote?

ATVB,

John Mc & Crew

5.1 System problems

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