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General Irish politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Truly truly scary to what happened to Eve Cleary under the care of FFGs health system

    Yes I'm watching old VM documentaries but it's a surprise this isn't seen as a problem for FFG supporters

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/our-daughter-just-fell-and-hurt-her-leg-youre-not-supposed-to-die-from-a-fall-family-of-eve-cleary-21-speak-out-on-tragedy/a1108589099.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    This is true, but governments can create economies that are good and bad for house building

    This idea that the govt see a housing crisis and do nothing about it should no longer be considered acceptable.

    For example when the banking crisis transpired in 2008 there was legislation enacted overnight to deal with the issue.

    But then again, there were rich people at stake in 2008 so they had to be saved, poor people should eventually die off so not as much of an issue

    You don't blame the paramedic (even if they put you on the trolley) for the trolley situation in UHL.

    Likewise you shouldn't blame SF for the problems caused by the Tories, nor should you blame the UHL doctors for the problems caused by FFG



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The Shinners don’t believe she is, especially because of this hit job.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-féin-has-opposed-building-of-6-000-homes-across-dublin-says-fine-gael-report-1.4602893

    She actually concludes by saying “the report comes two weeks before the Dublin Bay South by-election” as if it was by mere coincidence that the voters are getting the benefit of this important document.

    In reality, FG gathered up a lot oppo research on planning and released it at a strategic moment to a “reliable” journalist- someone who would feed it wholesale to their readers without asking SF for their comment.
    That was not fair, and you can expect to see a lot more of this in the coming weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I was listening to that episode too. It's gas cos earlier on in the episode the presenter tee'd her up to have a dig at the government for rushing through the Seanad bill. She dodged the question completely so he criticised them instead. I was wondering was she avoiding criticising them for reasons discussed in this thread. Then she came out and said that exact thing that you quoted and it was like "Wow it's almost as if she knew exactly what I was thinking!"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I'm not sure if any of them are unbiased. That wasn't an argument that I was making.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Well spotted and worth a listen as an example of a younger journalist who has neither the courage nor the sense of fairness to criticise the government even when her older colleagues give her cover, especially on the indefensible farce of Seanad reform,

    Both Hugh Linehan and Harry McGee comment critically on the "unseemly haste" with which legislation was rushed through both Houses this week with the guillotine used "injudiciously" and "more often than in the French revolution". Scandalously, the debate on the Seanad reform was completely curtailed and a Bill which will radically extend the Seanad University electorate was rammed through on Wednesday.

    As was the emasculated Incitement to Hatred Bill. Harry gives a potted history of that embarrassing volte-face by the Government but Hugh turned this into a discussion of SF's similar u-turn which Jennifer was happy to focus on, so not a hint of criticism from her of FF/FG. Harry tries to bring it back to FG/FF but Hugh again goes after SF on puberty blockers and Jen agrees, saying SF are "going with the line of least resistance" on such issues. She admits the government have also ditched various proposals after the referendums but she is insouciant - "that's just politics".

    Hugh and Harry say the saga of Seanad reform shows "something rotten in the heart of the government" , a "quasi-corrupt divvy up" by the large parties which Harry calls a "rotten borough", like the House of Lords. But Jennifer completely dodges these issues and tries to ridicule Hugh's concerns as a mere personal foible - "let's talk about it over a pint". Of course, she can't deny the facts, but admits she didn't even know what was going on with the Bill until the night before (if I were her Editor, I would haul her in over that remark).

    Is there a generational shift in the IT? Older journalists like Hugh and Harry are perfectly comfortable giving the government a kicking but the younger generation are much more comfortable going after the "right-wing" opposition. Jen loves to spread election gossip but she offers no insights on policy.

    Ironically, SF are paying a heavy price for trying to placate these younger "woke" journalists and, as a result, Harry and Hugh expect Independents will have a strong showing - Hugh expects up to 40 in the next Dáil. This would be disastrous for good government - a Parliament full of Mé Féiners looking to bring home the bacon like the Healy-Raes. But most younger journalists don't understand why the electorate are so disillusioned with the political parties and don't understand the dangers. They don't even realise Budget 2025 was an irresponsible vote-buying exercise. And the Taoiseach now promises the next Government would write a blank cheque for all the child-care in the country 🤯

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Given that you're politicising this terrible death, how exactly would it not have happened had SF been in Government?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Yes I do. See my latest posts.

    Any other candidate for the title of fair and unbiased Political Correspondent?

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I'm politicising it because it was a political decision by former FFG taoisigh in their roles as health ministers to kill off the health service which was meant to be saving this life

    Chances are the health service is so damaged now that it would take years for any competent govt to sort out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I suspect someone like Hugh Linehan, as the Arts Editor at the Irish Times, might be more secure in his job than others - as such he doesn't have to worry about his opinions affecting his future job prospects.

    Jennifer Bray, on the other hand, is more junior and likely has more tenuous job security. She may be willing to turn down job offers working for politicians for now but likely doesn't want to burn her bridges entirely by being too honest about FF/FG.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Kill off the health service 🙄

    Ireland has issues with access and wait times, but once admitted, as this unfortunate person was, has excellent outcomes in the health service. Mistakes were clearly made, but mistakes are made in every health service on the planet. Unless you can point to some specific issue that is a result of the government this is just grotesque.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Firstly, you haven't described how a SF government would do things differently.

    As for the tragic death, how exactly did political decisions cause the outcome here? It was regrettable that she spent so long on a trolley but had she been seen straight away, woukd the outcome have been any different as we've absolutely no evidence to suggest this?

    You're deliberately trying to blame an unfortunate medical diagnosis/miss on politics which frankly speaks volumes.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,521 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Indeed like I pointed out previously since SF have signed up to the exact same slaintecare plan as is in use the magical thinking that SF in government would have somehow stopped tragic cases like this is absurd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Firstly, you haven't described how a SF government would do things differently

    Apologies, thought that it was implied they wouldn't have f**ked it up in the first place



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I don’t buy this notion that the journalists’ careers are now so precarious that they must kowtow to the politicians.

    If that was the decisive factor in the relationship, the politicians would be slaves to the journalists because, as we will see most clearly next month, political careers are far more precarious. How many journalists have lost their jobs this year? Let me Google up a list of ex-MEPs and ex-Councillors which I will then update with ex-TDs and ex-Senators (most of whom are also ex-TDs 😏).

    The problem is not that journalists lose their jobs, it’s that they have their eyes on better-paid, less stressful jobs in government and “non-governmental organisations” (George Orwell would appreciate that misnomer). We see the same with the “crime corrrespondents” who defend the Gardai in every scandal. None of them have lost their jobs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    1. Elect Sinn Fein
    2. ??
    3. Paradise

    This appears to be your argument, am I right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,524 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SF will be happy with that poll I'd imagine. FG not so much.
    FF closing the gap.

    poll.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, happy that the Sinn Fein vote has halved since its peak of 36%.

    How much further do you think they can fall?

    Combined government vote is now 46%, gives them a great chance of being re-elected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,524 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,154 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The counter argument would be

    1. Let the current crowd have another chance
    2. Buy health insurance


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,290 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Many of these journalists end up working for those same politicians when they are in government.

    A literal handful at best, but you'll never cease to hear the endless whinging about it on here.

    Remember when we were told here on a daily basis that Enda Kenny was remote controlled from Brussels so he'd get the massive EU job any day now? 🙄

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,290 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The budget was a lot less reckless than what any of the opposition parties would have done.

    Look, we get it, you hate the government but please provide credible arguments.

    You're losing all credibility if you ascribe SF's serious failings to some sort of conspiracy rather than their own poor standards of internal governance.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,290 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    For example when the banking crisis transpired in 2008 there was legislation enacted overnight to deal with the issue.

    And when the Catholic Church needed a multi-billion paedophile bailout there wasn't legislation, there wasn't a Dail vote, there wasn't even a Cabinet decision. But they got the cash. No-one has ever explained how that was legal.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,290 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    hit job 🙄 I mean, really?

    Shinners hate the truth about their party being exposed.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,290 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    "kill off the health service"

    well bang goes any credibility there.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Coolcormack1979


    election over before it’s even officially announced.ff and fg to romp home.looks like the public have bought the few bob threw at them and believe the tik-tok Taoiseach and his endless videos of him working for you and his party’s “new energy “

    All to be decided is who’s the mudguard to take the flak.🤦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,521 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Ill just keep pointing out your lies i suppose as you don't seem want to acknowledge them. SF signed up to implement the same cross party Health initiative in 2018 as is being enacted by the current government, the only way they would have done anything different is by reneging on this agreement which was put in place to specifically stop the constant changing of priorities and focus by new governments that you seem to be calling for which is what led our health service to be the nightmare it currently is. It will take a lot longer than you or SF like to claim to fix things and this is what Slaintecare exists to hopefully do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Not sure they managed to get to that level of detail to be honest. Seem to revolve around number 1 only.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,110 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Their vote has halved over 12+ months. It seems the recent issues affecting the party has had little impact on their support despite some wild predictions here.

    It's been clear for a while that FF/FG will form the next government - notwithstanding the next few weeks can impact all party's support positively and negatively - agreeing a programme won't be an issue as they are broadly at one on most issues. The issue will be the gap between both in terms of seat numbers and who gets to be Taoiseach.



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