Ireland's Refugee Policy cont. Please read OP before posting

"The Dutch coalition government, headed by Geert Wilders’ far-right Freedom party (PVV), is considering sending Africans whose asylum requests are rejected to Uganda, in plans that opposition politicians have said are “totally unfeasible”.

During a visit this week to the East African country, the Dutch minister for trade and development, Reinette Klever, said the cabinet was exploring the ideaand that Uganda was “not averse” to it, the Dutch public broadcaster Nos reported on Wednesday."

Italy has done it and all the power houses of Europe will have their own solution soon enough. These countries know they cannot carry on like this, something has to be done but they need to stop these illegals getting into Europe full stop.

I'm also a firm believer we need to do something with Africa to stop this influx. The West is not so innocent in all of this with Global warming etc but the corruption in this countries is staggering. I really wish we could stop this blight happening and stop the Sudan war, it's heart breaking we in the West are doing nothing and this is causing these people come to Europe.

Stop the issues in these countries would decrease the number wanting to come

Summit of European leaders hears call for firmer deportation policies as migration dominates agenda

Finally it's good to see immigration is front and center of EU talks. I just don't have the confidence that EU will get it sorted, they have an awful track record.

I'm struggling to decide whether that's better or worse than pasting unattributed chunks of twitter posts like the lad on the Harris thread.

What nonsense, there is nothing far right or racist to question the contuined volumes of both legal and illegal migration into this country and the strain it is putting on housing, health care, education, transport and every other service in the country. The fact is, while they may be working, allowing an unlimited amount of people into the country is affecting a large portion of the native population.

Indians who come to Ireland arrive through legal channels, whether on work or student visas, and they follow all the necessary procedures. They don’t just show up and demand housing or government support. In fact, many are highly educated professionals in fields like technology, healthcare, and finance, filling key roles in the workforce. By contributing their skills and paying taxes, they play an important part in the economy, often without receiving any of the state benefits that critics claim they do. The portrayal of them arriving with “sob stories” and seeking handouts is simply not true.

This kind of narrative is being pushed by far-right groups that have a clear agenda rooted in racism and xenophobia. They intentionally spread misinformation to create fear and resentment towards immigrants, despite the fact that these individuals are following the legal process and integrating into society. Instead of addressing the real issues—like housing and the overall economy—they divert attention by blaming a group that is actively contributing to Ireland. It’s nothing more than a tactic to sow division and distract from systemic failures.

This kind of exaggerated rhetoric only serves to distract from the actual conversation. No one is proposing that Ireland takes in millions of people without any planning or consideration. The discussion is about Indians, many of whom are legal immigrants and many of whom are skilled professionals contributing to the economy, paying taxes, and filling essential roles in sectors like healthcare, IT, and education. Painting a picture of mass chaos with people living in fields or hotels is a far cry from the reality of regulated immigration policies that bring in individuals who help drive economic growth.

Instead of relying on sarcastic exaggerations, it would be more productive to focus on the facts. Immigrants who arrive legally are not a drain on resources, but an asset to society. They contribute their skills, pay into the tax system, and help strengthen the very infrastructure that some claim is being “overwhelmed.” Shifting the conversation to the actual benefits immigrants bring—rather than indulging in extreme hypotheticals—would lead to a more rational and informed discussion on how to manage immigration in a way that supports both the economy and social stability.

It's worth pointing out that your initial response was directed at a post about Indians, who come to Ireland legally and contribute positively to society. This discussion wasn't about refugees or illegal migration.

That being said, regarding your comments about migrants arriving after passing through several countries, it’s important to recognize that not everyone who seeks asylum does so out of convenience. Many are fleeing war, persecution, or dangerous situations, and international law permits them to seek asylum in a safe country, regardless of how many countries they pass through. The idea that they expect to be "fed, clothed, and housed forever" is misleading—most refugees want to work and contribute once they are able to settle. The narrative that pro-open borders advocates are trying to “muddy the waters” is a common tactic used to simplify a complex issue. You responded to a post about Indians and got corrected and then claimed I am trying to "muddy the waters" for example. It's essential to separate facts from fear-mongering and recognize that not all migrants are here to take advantage of the system; many are simply seeking safety and a chance to build a life.

First, it’s important to remember that this discussion started around legal immigration, particularly Indians and other immigrants who come to Ireland through proper channels, contribute to the economy, and pay taxes. There’s nothing wrong with questioning migration policies, but it's crucial to distinguish between legal, skilled immigration and the issues related to illegal migration. Legal immigrants, like many Indians, are often filling roles in sectors that desperately need skilled workers. They aren't placing strain on services but are instead contributing through taxes and boosting the workforce.

Regarding the broader issue of strain on housing, healthcare, and other services, it's not just about immigration. The housing crisis, for example, stems from a lack of proper infrastructure and long-term planning. Blaming legal immigrants for systemic issues ignores the root causes. Most of these services are under pressure because of years of underinvestment and mismanagement. The narrative that "unlimited" immigration is the problem is often promoted by far-right groups to stoke fear and resentment, but legal migration is controlled and managed through strict visa processes. It’s vital to have an honest discussion about the real causes of these strains rather than scapegoating immigrants who are legally contributing to the country.

When discussing migrants who arrive through irregular pathways, it’s important to understand the context behind their decisions. Many individuals who take these perilous journeys are fleeing dire circumstances, such as war, persecution, or extreme poverty. They often come from places where their safety and basic human rights are compromised, leading them to seek refuge in countries like Ireland. While irregular migration raises legitimate concerns about border security and resource allocation, it’s crucial to approach the issue with empathy and recognize the complexities involved.

Many of these individuals ultimately wish to contribute to society and can do so if given the opportunity. Addressing the root causes of migration and creating safe, regulated avenues for entry can help mitigate some of the pressures on services while ensuring that we uphold our values of compassion and support for those in need.

It's also essential to recognize that Ireland has a long history of immigration and emigration itself. Over the years, many Irish people have sought better opportunities abroad, often facing challenges similar to those faced by today's migrants. For instance, during the Great Famine in the mid-19th century, millions of Irish emigrants left for countries like the United States, often arriving without legal documentation. In fact, it’s estimated that around 50% of Irish immigrants to the U.S. during that period were undocumented.

As of 2024, there are an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 undocumented Irish immigrants currently living in the United States. This figure reflects a significant number of Irish individuals who, over the years, have found themselves living and working in the U.S. without the necessary legal documentation​

Pew Research Center

USAFacts

Historically, many Irish emigrants have faced similar challenges, with a notable percentage relying on social services in their host countries. For example, during the 1990s, it was estimated that around 30% of Irish immigrants in the U.K. were receiving some form of welfare support.

As Ireland continues to evolve into a multicultural nation, it is crucial to recognize the diverse backgrounds and experiences of immigrants who contribute to the fabric of Irish society.

I stand by the points I made. In any serious discussion—especially on topics like racism and immigration—precision and clarity in language are key to making sure the conversation is productive. Highlighting what’s important, crucial, or vital isn't about being repetitive or formulaic; it’s about emphasizing the parts of the conversation that really matter. If we’re going to address these issues honestly and effectively, we can’t shy away from underscoring the things that truly need attention and careful thought.

It seems like there’s some misunderstanding of the points raised. The mention of Irish emigration and the famine isn't to check boxes, but to provide historical context—important when discussing modern immigration issues. Just as Irish people sought opportunities or fled hardship, many of today’s migrants, whether legal or seeking asylum, do so for similar reasons. The challenges faced by Irish emigrants, including being undocumented in countries like the U.S., echo the current experiences of migrants today.

As for the question about documentation during the famine, you’re right that formal documentation wasn’t required in the same way we think of it now. However, that doesn’t change the fact that many Irish emigrants arrived with little more than hope, often depending on the goodwill of the countries that took them in. It’s worth noting that the systems and laws governing migration have evolved since then. Today, asylum seekers—whether fleeing war, persecution, or severe hardship—are within their rights to seek refuge, and it’s international law that allows them to apply for asylum regardless of how they arrive.

The point isn’t to conflate legal immigration with asylum seekers but to address the complex nature of migration and ensure the conversation remains informed by history and humanity. It was the posters here who brought up Indians and started conflating legal immigration with asylum seekers in the first place.

First of all lhe term "illegal immigration" is often misused when referring to asylum seekers who arrive without passports or proper documentation. International law, particularly the 1951 Refugee Convention, explicitly recognizes the right of individuals to seek asylum from persecution, regardless of their means of entry. Labeling these individuals as "illegal" oversimplifies their complex situations, as many are fleeing life-threatening circumstances where obtaining valid travel documents was impossible. This terminology can dehumanize asylum seekers and obscure the legal protections they are entitled to, ultimately influencing public perception and policy in ways that may lead to harsher treatment of those in need of help. A more accurate and compassionate understanding of their status acknowledges their legitimate need for safety and protection.

Second of all, not all Irish people abroad "fund their life 100%".

In the UK, a significant number of Irish nationals rely on social welfare systems. According to a 2021 analysis of census data, around 8% of Irish-born residents in England and Wales receive benefits, highlighting that many do indeed access social support. This reliance is not unique to the Irish immigrant experience; it reflects broader patterns of community support among immigrants in various contexts. Historical instances, such as during the Great Famine (1845-1852), also demonstrate how Irish immigrants frequently depended on community resources and social aid upon arriving in new countries.

For more details on the welfare statistics related to Irish nationals in the UK, you can visit these sites which provide comprehensive analysis based on census data.

In terms of actual numbers, there were approximately 380,000 Irish-born residents in England and Wales at the time. Thus, around 30,400 Irish-born individuals would be receiving benefits, according to official statistics.

Irish in Britain

www.irishinbritain.org/what-we-do/policy-and-representation/the-census

Many critics of immigration often point to the presence of immigrants as a strain on public services, yet they conveniently overlook the approximately 30,400 Irish individuals in the UK who are receiving benefits. According to far-right logic, one might ask, should these people be thrown out as well?

Would IPAs coming here with fake documents or no documents be classed as illegals?