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Clarity on new Current Affairs rules

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    I don't know how the back end works, but some reports aren't getting through. I reported a post a couple weeks ago, but it wasn't actioned, had to PM a mod they said they couldn't find any record of it being reported



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,654 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    This isn't really the thread for this, but I'll answer the question.

    No, I'm not saying that. IMO, cis or cisgender is a valid term to use in a discussion on gender issues. It's not new, the term has been around for 20 years now.

    Personally, I am not offended and would not object if someone refers to me as a cis or cisgender woman, but if another person did, and asked me not to use the term in reference to them as an individual, then I would respect their request.

    (The same way I'll respect someone's gender identity or pronouns, if they tell me them.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,365 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Also, there used to be a little popup that appeared after you submitted a report, indicating it had been logged OK.
    Down in the bottom left corner.

    That's been gone a couple of months now.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Well I think it is the thread for it as we are discussing the new rules.

    I have seen a lot of posters asking for people not to refer to them as Cis as they find it offensive.

    It would be good to know if a poster says to not refer to them as Cis, that this would be respected and treated the same as the Trans rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,413 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    I don't understand how you can take offence to being called cisgender.

    Cisgender just means you're not transgender.

    Cis and trans are the opposite of each other in Latin.

    The only reason I could see how that would offend someone is if they don't believe transgender people exist.

    If that's the case, the boards rule is very clear on that. On this site, transgender people exist ergo, cisgender people exist



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,654 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Well, it would be respected by me, and I wouldn't need it to be a formal rule to tell me do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    A poster can have the belief that transgender people don't exist but respectfully call others how they prefer to be called.

    If that poster says they do not want to be addressed by Cis then that should also be respected.

    I don't see why anyone would not respect how a poster would prefer to be called.

    If things are equal then anyone wishing to be addressed as female should be respected and people sanctioned who address anyone who they don't want to be addressed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,413 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Of course.

    But the point is:

    A female that is not transgender is cisgender.

    A male that is not transgender is cisgender.

    People who feel their sex and gender align are cisgender.

    If someone says they don't want to be referred to as cisgender is a tacit acknowledgment that they don't feel transgender people exist.

    Cisgender is not a dirty word or a slur. To believe it is, is to demean the trans community.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Cis-ters are doing it for themselves



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I don't agree it is a slur, I have seen people ask to be referred as female and not cis.

    It will be good to see these people are also respected and people are expected to respect their decision.



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  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,754 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Quit it with the pronoun discussion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,829 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    My problem with this is the subjectivity of it .

    Is it not only possible but likely in some threads where groupthink may go towards one side of the debate while an individual poster who disagrees with this particular groupthink could be labeled as a " concern troll " by others in the debate

    Like how is it trolling , specifically ? Is it the way a poster engages , is it disingenuous argument or what ?

    I read your definitions odyssey , fair dues to you for trying , and I still think this is a very grey area and the fact that @Big Bag of Chips is as confused as I am says it all .No offense BBoC , but there really is no hope for the rest of us 😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    That's "JAQing off" closely related to and a form of sealioning (or you could say sealioning is a form of JAQing off)

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

    JAQing off for the most part I would say is slightly different to sealioning though, eg. the type of rhetorical vitriol you see of people peddling conspiracy theories, such as satirized in this example, the questions are more loaded than those typical of sealioning:

    Concern trolling is like, going into eg. the Russia thread and complaining that there are so many posts about the Ukraine war and why isn't nobody posting about some obscure conflict in south america etc. - while also not electing to start a thread about the lesser conflict, instead just trolling an unrelated thread to complain about it as a way to derail the first thread. 'well if you don't care about this conflict in south america how are you allowed to care about Ukraine' etc. or otherwise going on complete tangents about concerns which have no basis to the topic and can often be trivial in relevance to the topic, such as the example at the link:

    Imagine being on fire, running up to a firefighter screaming for help, and they hook their hands in their pockets and say, "Actually, before we start, I think you should say you're violently oxidizing. Not all oxidization is bad. I mean, some of my cells are performing oxidation right now, and I think it would be better if we ...

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    ^ thats more like the 'performative social justice warrior-ing' definition I had in mind at first, rather than the 'false flag debating/ devils advocate' definition that was posted.

    So now I'm more confused than i ever was....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭The Ging and I


    I cannot open any posts beyond page 196 on Russia Ukraine war in Current affairs. Is there a technical problem ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,365 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I am the same with a few threads, never seen that issue before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,413 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    If you keep going back a page at a time, you'll eventually find the latest posts.

    Always mad that it's up to users like me to tell people that instead of a message from the management that they're "aware of the situation, and trying to fix it, but in the meantime, do this"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,654 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    So now I'm more confused than i ever was....

    Me too. 😵



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    . just saw mod warning so deleted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,829 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,546 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The thread that's currently active on the US presidential debate is a prime example of what a discussion forum should be trying to avoid.

    1. It's almost entirely an echo chamber.
    2. Anyone who deviates from the concensus is piled on by the usual suspects who seemingly operate with impunity outside the scope of the new rules.
    3. Badgering of other users on the same insignificant issues, one poster in particular is doing this by asking the same question over and over for days now, and again, no visible action taken.

    The ideas that were put forward in the recent feedback thread were intended to make rules easier to enforce and to give posters that run afowl of the rules the opportunity to change their posting. I see the same old issues relating to one poster today accrueing multiple warnings leading to a lengthy ban which runs contrary to what the intention was for the idea of an escalation procedure for warnings.

    I'm personally posting less and not interacting with certain people because to do so with how things work currently would undoubtedly lead to a series of bans.

    We're still seeing one group of posters being allowed an incredible amount of leeway not afforded to others. It's a two tier system and it's driving the site into the ground.

    Sensible proposals were put forward in feedback and have been implemented in a manner that leaves users in no doubt that they are neither valued nor wanted on the platform.

    This has been mucked up in some style. Either enforce rules in an equitable fashion or just give up the pretence of balance once and for all.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think it should just be given to them and let what happens happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,701 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    There are maybe 6-12 regular posters who cause most of the issues I described above. Everyone here knows who they are because the same stuff carries from thread to thread.

    Hmmmm.

    There are a number of thankers to your post that fit that bill beautifully.

    😆



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,701 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Hang on.

    A request for a poster to back up their assertion or opinion is not "sealioning". It's asking them to provide something tangible as grounds for debate.

    If I say that the Empire State Building is actually in Paris and not New York, the very least I would expect is a post asking me to provide proof of such a claim. In fact, multiple posts asking the same.

    Making "requests for evidence" a line in the sand will only result in the usual dickheads on here bombarding you lot (mods) with Flags because they feel they're being "piled on".

    Any claim made on here should be open to a request to be backed up, much like most other discussion forums on the web. There's nothing wrong with a poster asking another poster to provide something tangible for their opinion, even if it is over a number of posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,996 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    So do you now want rules to force people to not post of they happen to agree with the majority incase it offends the minority to discocer they are a minority?

    The changes were made to appease the minority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,546 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I said nothing of the sort.

    You're stating that as if it's fact, when it's a complete fabrication designed to make me look unreasonable.

    All I'm saying is that people should be free to disagree with the majority without being piled on and or ridiculed and with that in mind, the rules need to be applied across the board.

    And for the record the changes were suggested to improve things for everyone, what's happened is that anyone who isn't left leaning is being subjected to the rules in the most aggressive form while poor behaviour by others goes unpunished. All that should be happening is that the rules should be applied evenly across the board.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,432 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Hang on

    A request for a poster to back up their assertion or opinion is not "sealioning". It's asking them to provide something tangible as grounds for debate.

    Yes, I know it isn't and nobody said it was. What's the problem here exactly?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,996 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    and back to the "piling on" trope nonsense again.



This discussion has been closed.
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