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General gaming discussion

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    You can surely refute it without the labels? Dustborn took 4 years of development, got funding from the EU and managed to sell an amazing 83 copies on launch day and that was it. Concord decided to throw the character design brief to a man crippled with white guilt and a virtue signalling complex and that's also done amazingly well - 8 years development, approx 200 million and it's gone less than 2 weeks after launch.

    It's not a stretch by any means or "rightwing virus bongtalk" when the proof is right there in front of your face that maybe, just maybe, nobody wants to play games with this stuff included in them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,669 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    "It's not a stretch by any means or "rightwing virus bongtalk""

    "Concord decided to throw the character design brief to a man crippled with white guilt and a virtue signalling complex"

    Well that sure seems like rightwing virus bongtalk to me anyway….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    You're so right, there's nothing at all those 3 have in common. Just 3 very close failures one after the other for no reason at all. Carry on.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I could do that but that would mean engaging in bad faith arguments and giving utter ballocks the time of day which will gain nothing. So I just called it what it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No, it didn't fail because of the DEI boogeyman, it failed because no one wanted to play it. Sure, the money they spent paying those grifters could have been spent doing a proper market survey or a focus group, but that would only serve to pull the plug earlier, not to magically turn it into a success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    The Acolyte failed because it was boring as shíte and everyone was sick of sub-par Star Wars stuff. I watched it and I hated it because it was boring as hell. Concord failed because the release strategy was an incredible and poorly thought out failure in an already oversaturated market. Can't speak to the other one as I'm not familiar with it.

    I could mention dozens of games that have diverse characters or relationships. Baldurs Gate 3, Last of Us Pt.2, Life is Strange, Tchia, etc. etc.

    The Acolyte and Concord failed because they sucked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    A game as big as Concord with Sony behind it should never simply fail as bad as it did, even in a saturated market good games can find a player base. Concords problem was having the most visually repulsive characters (in an attempt to be "inclusive") in a game type that lives purely on its ability to sell skins - a fatal error which killed it out the gate (along with the pronoun stuff on top which is just **** nonsense whatever way you want to spin it).

    Dustborn is really something special though, it takes real effort to spend 4 years making a raging **** of a game that reaches only 83 people (probably the devs themselves and a couple of friends).

    And I have no problem with diverse relationships, the games you mentioned were excellent in their own right and the introduction of those themes was subtle and really well done. There's a very big difference between maturely crafting such things in to a story vs point blank shoving them in the players face.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 31,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    The selective data point playbook:

    Unsuccessful inclusive game - 'failed because DEI'

    Successful inclusive game - 'that doesn't count'



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Maybe, just maybe Dustborn failed because even someone like myself that's chronically online and looking at videogames discourse never heard of it. And maybe Concord failed because I most people barely heard of and. Nobody seemed interested in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    The amount of mental gymnastics required to explain that DEI must be why a boring looking game failed must be exhausting. Ever hear of Occam's razor.

    Most normal people don't care about any of this, people who aren't chronically online aren't consuming info on Concord which tells them that the game has pronouns or gender diversity or whatever. Hell, like retro I'm online all the time and never knew that ****. I thought it looked boring cause it looked like Guardians of the Galaxy, I'm just tired of Marvel snark and have no interest in more hero shooters.

    Pronouns are bottom of the list for possible reasons that this game sunk, the amount of people with whom that info registered as a possible gripe nothing next to the withering disinterest it got from the majority. Meanwhile they will quickly admit that TLOU2 is a great game that did well cause of its obvious quality and wide appeal. Something which was found lacking with Concord.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,669 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Even ignoring TLOU2, Overwatch is one of the most successful games in the genre and has made hundreds of millions, possibly even billions in profit. Huge array of LGBTQ+ characters.

    But that doesn't count, I guess....



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 31,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Ditto Apex Legends, which is even bigger than Overwatch AFAIK, albeit in a different genre.

    Concord’s main problem was trying to directly copy those games and others with massive established fanbases - all without a hook to differentiate itself, a bland & derivative presentation, bizarrely lackluster marketing, a protracted development cycle that meant it was out of date before it even arrived, and a €40 barrier to entry when the competition is free.

    Though I do find it depressing that F2P is the default for these kinds of games, as personally I’d like to see less predatory pay upfront models succeed for multiplayer games. Thought Helldivers 2 was encouraging in that sense (40 quid seems reasonable for a multiplayer only title - effectively half the price of a standard AAA game), but even then you can’t escape the push for players to pay for cosmetics. Still begrudge Overwatch 2 for even taking the game everyone paid for away to lay on the F2P bullshit (though the loot boxes were always obnoxious). I much prefer a game that isn’t designed around extracting money, though seems the industry has very much moved beyond that when it comes to multiplayer games (a few exceptions aside).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,559 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    "As game as big as Concord with Sony behind it should never simply fail" is a sure sign of someone who has been neglecting their video game history :) Bigger games have crashed and burned. Hell think back to ET, there was a game that almost destroyed the entire industry.

    Business analytics would say that any game being released will come with an element of risk. Some less than others sure, but no game is guaranteed success. Fallout was a beloved game series, Fallout 76 was a bomb on release. Remember Battleborn by Gearbox? It was an absolute disaster that was getting sold for a fiver within weeks of release. Anthem had a ridiculous campaign behind it for marketing and it died a death.

    The reality with games is that there is a number of elements behind success, avoiding a saturated market with an effective clone is one, innovation is an element but not a silver bullet. The pricing strategy is another. As others have pointed out, Hi Fi Rush was a massive success, but no doubt it's presence on gamepass was an element of that.

    Representation has never been identified as a reason for POOR performance but it was identified as a potential reason for the success of movies, shows and games.

    This is not to say you aren't entitled to your opinion, you are fully entitled to be unimpressed with the presence of individuals of a certain type in games and to therefore avoid them. Same as my lack of interest in soccer and therefore any fifa game. I'm not going to say it's a terrible game because I don't like it, but I can say it's a terrible game FOR ME.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,408 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Finished Atomic Heart. One of the most 5/10 games ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭recyclops


    With all the concord stuff going this is an interesting take on Astrobot

    https://www.thegamer.com/astro-bot-isnt-a-celebration-its-a-graveyard/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I stopped reading as soon as he started giving out about Bloodborne... get over it already!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭jj880


    Im going to go ahead and wipe that from my memory for tomorrow. Think I'll just enjoy the nostalgia as I play. What a downer article to be putting out 2 days before Astro Bot launches.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Never forgive. Never forget.

    Although I'm kind of happy legend of Dragoon is in the graveyard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Happy I gave up so quick so! Without knowing who the writer is, if they're spoiling the game so soon to release then they're a dick.

    I suppose Dragoon does need some company there, happy Bloodborne is filling that gap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,669 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    They're not spoiling the game, just pointing out that the game (as with Astro's Playroom) will contain a lot of references to past PS games and franchises, which might be a bit depressing now given how many of their great franchises and characters have been abandoned. There'll probably even be some sort of Concord reference which would have been fun 3 weeks ago, but now might just be sad.

    So it depends which mentality you choose to go into the game with. It's either a fun jaunt down memory lane, or you're walking through a graveyard (which is what the article is describing).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Ah, I got ya now. Yeah, I'll be doing a nostalgia run, ain't nothing gonna bring that down! Weird view to take from it tbh, seeing it as a jaunt through a graveyard...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Well as they say, a jaunt through a graveyard of wasted potential. Sony have a lot of excellent IP they could use but haven't touched, which if you compare to, say, Nintendo or Capcom, is quite frustrating if you were a fan of those games. I did however see a lot from non Sony games as well so it's not just Sony on this case.

    I just want to see another ape escape.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,894 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    You say Acolyte. What was the DEI reason Madalorian season 3 was poorly received? Or Book of Boba Fett?

    Could it be that the stories they were telling weren't very good, or interesting?

    I thought Obi Wan, centred on a white male lead was crap. Cause the acting was poor, the direction poor.

    I thought Andor was really good though, with a good story and direction.

    Starfield didn't set the world alight. Whatis the DIE reason for that? Is it not just that traversal was poor, game play mechanics poorly implement and a lifeless universe?

    Did Madame Web do badly cause of DIE? If so, what is the excuse for Morbius? I thought the Harley Quinn movie did well and was well received. But with a bunch of female leads I have to assume no one wanted to see it and it bombed?

    I didn't play Concord. I don't care about the character designs. I didn't buy a PVP only game that showed it had very little public interest cause I felt there was no future in its player counts. I thought from the first trailer it didn't look great. But at no point did I attribute it to a character design. And the only comment I would make on it now is that the charater design is boring, rathen than 'diverse'. The female character with the space helmet… just looks boring.

    I don't understand why people keep attributing the failure of poor movies or games to 'woke' rather than… just not being good. Though I suppose i do see that in the failure of The Marvels - as people were review bombing that before it even came out for, imo, having Brie Larsson as the lead. I thought it was a fun movie (though I hated the musical part).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Looks like Sony somewhat agrees about their IP:

    I'd disagree. I think Sony has an excellent library of IP but it's being chronically under utilized as the chase a hardcore gamer demographic. They're really failing to realize why these IP exist, they were there not to sell well but to widen the appeal of the PlayStation brand outside of the usual gamer demographic and fill in gaps in the respective consoles library.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,669 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I think it's also very likely that the number of people who knew the characters in Concord had their pronouns on the character select screen is probably even less than the number of people who played Concord (which is already a low number).

    People can't be put off DEI stuff in a game they didn't play and didn't know there was any type of DEI stuff in the game. Unless of course they're just constantly listening to the grifters who propagate nonsense about DEI and blame it for everything because they know negative commentary gets more attention and therefore makes them more money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,770 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I was gonna do a big long detailed post, but decided its all down to personal preference so... each to their own. I prefer new over remake or even sequel.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,669 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I just hope we don't start getting Sony Game films, like Jak & Daxter starring Jack Black as Daxter, or Ratchet & Clank starring Jack Black as Clank, or Bloodborne starring Jack Black as the Doll….



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