Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

1262263265267268365

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The killer could have been male or female, one or more persons. Nothing is confirmed, neither the motive nor the age or where the killer is from or could have been from. It'd say a man in his 50s or 60s could also have done it as well.

    There has been the suggestion by some Irishman that an animal could have been involved, such as a horse and she could have been kicked to death by a horse.

    The suggestion is not impossible, there was one case like this in some other country, I think somewhere in Scandinavia, where one was arrested for murder but later on released upon new and strongly convincing evidence that it was actually a horse.

    However I believe this can be ruled out in this case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Not many horses could neatly drop a slab of concrete onto somebody's head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,832 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Not without leaving a number of hoof prints around the scene.

    EmmetSpiceland: Oft imitated but never bettered.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 347 ✭✭bjsc


    Couple of interesting photos - taken shortly after the scene was released. They show the left hand gatepost, but what is on the ground at the base of it? Photo of pumphouse for context.

    Screenshot_20240901_155556_Google.jpg Screenshot_20240901_160446_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20240901_140030_Adobe Acrobat.jpg


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,352 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    I think the killer knew well that Sophie would be alone and that the neighbours would both be fast asleep in bed so he may well have entered the house confident that there was no chance of him being noticed or disturbed under cover of darkness. He had just committed a brutal killing requiring significant physical effort on his part so, maybe, he felt exhausted and wanted to sit down for a spell and have a drink of water or some food. Making a hasty escape from the scene would not have been a priority. He had plenty of time.

    .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,352 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    It's still a difficult house to locate. The exact location is not even listed on Google Maps. In 1996, it would have been nigh on impossible for a stranger visiting the area for the first time to locate. Non-local journalists who covered the story at the time could testify to that.

    Dwyer is a cute hoor with an air of credibility about him when he speaks about the case. The forensics detective, Gilligan, who also featured in the documentary, has a similar credibility about him. They both have more knowledge about the evidential details of the case than anybody else and it's obvious they both believe that the main suspect is the actual killer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,571 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    MultIple posters on the thread have stated they were able to find the location. Your claims of what is nigh on impossible have no credibility.

    Dwyer and Gilligan in recent documentaries are contradicting or misrepresenting actual evidence collected and submitted in the case. Gilligan claiming such and such was found in the remnants of the fire for example when no such item was mentioned in the actual report he submitted as sworn evidence. Dwyer pretending they didnt get a jacket from Bailey, when one was taken in in evidence.

    I wouldnt put my faith in such airs.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,857 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It's still a difficult house to locate. The exact location is not even listed on Google Maps. In 1996, it would have been nigh on impossible for a stranger visiting the area for the first time to locate. Non-local journalists who covered the story at the time could testify to that.

    I don't know why this myth is perpetuated. It's the first of three houses at the end of a cul de sac with directions needed for only two turn off from the main Schull to Goleen road.

    Someone who had been there before could easily find it. Even someone who had never been there could easily find it with straightforward directions or a sketch or map, with the house marked by someone who knew where it was.

    It could equally have been someone who knew there were houses at the end of the cul de sac that were usually empty or just someone who randomly happend to be there.

    As far as I've read there is no evidence linking anyone to the crime scene.

    Dwyer is a cute hoor with an air of credibility about him when he speaks about the case. The forensics detective, Gilligan, who also featured in the documentary, has a similar credibility about him. They both have more knowledge about the evidential details of the case than anybody else and it's obvious they both believe that the main suspect is the actual killer.

    As gardaí I would find them more credible if they relied on deductive reasoning rather than belief. It's chasing flights of fabricated fantasy, more suited to a fiction novel rather than police work, in the early days of the investigation that has contributed to the crime being unsolved. Someone who relies on belief over reason is a buffoon.

    Post edited by FishOnABike on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It can be found now by anyone who has had an interest in the case, some might still have difficulty finding it. There's been maps and directions and descriptions on Tv, Newspapers, Forums like this etc. Sophie's house and the Prairie Cottage were even marked and named on Google Maps like tourist destinations up to a couple of years ago, believe it or not.

    The route and distance were mine, but the two houses (white writing)were on the Google map.

    Some Murder Tourists armed with maps even had to ask locals for directions, and got sent on wild goose chases around the Mizen. There's even one on here who found the place "easy enough after one or two wrong turns" in broad daylight. If someone going to visit Dreenane that night took a wrong turn and finished up in the wrong cul de sac in a farmer's yard, or had to ask for directions, they would have explaining to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,811 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I wonder how Sophie managed to even locate the house at all when she was househunting given its so difficult to find according to you?

    I dont know what age you are but back in the old days before eircodes, google maps etc people managed to find where they needed to be with relative ease. Sophies house isnt that difficult to find for someone who needed to get there - directions, maps etc would have got them there easily.

    The thinking that it had to be someone local because of the location is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    From a few of the pictures of the site there does seem to be a few of those rectangular concrete cavity blocks in the area in different locations, there was at least one more I think in the field beside Sophie's body among other blocks and boulders. I expect that there was a few other spares laying around. Perhaps there were some left over after the pump-house was built, or just being an agricultural location there is always a need for concrete blocks.

    With regards the pictures, the block is in a different location in the 2 photos of the gate/post box, does it mention anywhere who may have moved it? Did the forensic team look at it I wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The two photos of the post box are taken at different times, The post box is in a different place in each photo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Understood, has it been established when approximately the post box, and block were moved?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,352 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    No, I disagree completely and I'm quite familiar with that road leading from Kealfadda Bridge towards Dreenane, Toormore. Having driven along it on numerous occasions it is easy to miss the turn off leading to the DuPlantier house. There are several other left facing exits along the way and visibility of the hinterland is restricted because of the hilly terrain. A first time visitor looking for the location without navigational aids will still have difficulty doing so today.

    I think the narrative that some are putting about of an outside contract killer being responsible is just plain silly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭head82


    I'm a little confused re the photos of the gates. Were these images taken before the murder? If not, wasn't the gate removed for forensic examination (and subsequently lost or destroyed)? And there's no sign of the chicken wire that was reportedly covering the lower section of the gate which allowed it to remain propped open without the need for a concrete block to prop it open. Or perhaps this is a replacement gate installed after the original gate was removed.

    Or do I just have my gates mixed up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Yes the gate was replaced. This is some weeks after the murder as you can see the ditches cut back. It has one central upright.

    The original gate had 2 uprights.

    Also note the position of the post box, with the plank of wood beside it.

    It looks like the post box is fixed to a board which in turn is inserted into the cavity of cavity block and so can be moved around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Ms Robini


    You’d wonder what is motivating them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭Ms Robini


    my gates mixed up?!!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭head82


    Yes. There were a couple of different sets of gates which led onto Sophies immediate property/garden.

    Hence, the possibility for confusion.

    Hope that's cleared up for you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 347 ✭✭bjsc


    Screenshot_20240902_140814_Chrome.jpg

    I've added this for further context. It shows Bailey approaching the house. It was taken not long after the scene was released. I will have to check the exact date but it would be either late December or early January. The gate was replaced fairly soon after the murder presumably to keep out livestock and unwanted visitors. My point is that there are breeze blocks openly lying around which tends to negate the need to remove one from the pump house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭nc6000


    Bailey seems to have spent a lot of time around the scene after the murder, would it not be very unusual for a murderer to return like that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Who actually owned the post box, or was it communal for all the houses beyond?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "My point is that there are breeze blocks openly lying around which tends to negate the need to remove one from the pump house."

    There wasn't really any lying around there by the pier. The red circled block in the picture below was part of the post box, the post box appears to be fixed to a plank of wood which in turn is jammed into the cavity of a cavity block, it's in different positions in different photos relative to the pier. The green block looks to be part of the wall between the ditch and the pier. If the block on the pumphouse was dislodged in a scuffle with the gate it would make more sense to go for that one rather than go hunting around for one.

    Here's a still from a video from much later. It shows the top course of cavity blocks removed and used to weigh down the corrugated iron roof of the pumphouse. The sliding bolt that would have kept the gate closed can be seen and would have engaged with the 'missing' block. A scuffle with the gate - Sophie trying to close it - intruder trying to open it, or vice versa dislodged the block and Sophie's first blood shed on the lawn just there.

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭chooseusername




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 347 ✭✭bjsc


    I think the point I'm trying to make is that the blocks seem to be a bit of a moveable feast, and there were obviously more lying around than just those in the pump house and that they had several different purposes so there would not necessarily be a reason for the murderer to take one from the pump house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    it seems some people did fid it difficult to find the location back in 1996 see Post 2282

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭head82


    Yes! I've always felt that for a murderer to go to the trouble of dismantling a structure to acquire a lethal weapon when there was a surplus of potential weapons lying around to be completely incongruous.

    So now we're left with the seemingly rough removal of the felt roof from the pump house.. for what other reason?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 347 ✭✭bjsc


    But we don't know how long it had been like that because nobody asked the question. There is nothing to say it was damaged that night.



Advertisement