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Upgrading Room Thermostats Analog to Digital

  • 18-08-2024 04:59PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭


    I am looking to upgrade the two Imit analog room thermostats in my house to something digital, more modern, accurate and tidy looking.

    As I understand it, I need line voltage thermostats, although it would be helpful if someone could confirm from the attached photos? Looks to be high voltage with no C wire.

    Any recommendations for replacements that would be a straight swap?

    Monthly subscription fees are a definitive no. Wifi connectivity is not something I need, but no problem if the units themselves require it to function. Likewise I see no benefit to a control app. It just needs to accurately display the temp and have a +/- to adjust.

    The heating system is a new oil boiler, zoned for upstairs/downstairs/HW with an EPH programmable control unit.

    Post edited by 2011 on


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭Demosthenes


    20240818_150938.jpg 20240818_151003.jpg

    Photos added



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭Demosthenes


    I've decided to go with the Honeywell DT40BT22, looks to be exactly what I'm looking for, straight swap no-nonsense upgrade



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Honeywell are a good brand, I'm sure you will be happy with them. These have some nice functions, they will look smarter and can display the current temperature. However there is nothing to suggest that they will be more accurate than what you have.

    If you wanted to add app control without subscription I would suggest adding Sonoff or similar Wi-Fi enabled smart switch in addition to these stats. It's a cheap addition (around €25) and very handy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Don't the room stats with a neutral work better

    I can't remember the details of the why



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭Demosthenes


    From reading up online the general consensus seems to be the digital ones would be in around +/-1deg, assuming they have been correctly calibrated, while the mechanical ones could be off by as much as +/-10 deg?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,340 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    there are two issues here: the first is the accuracy of the unit against a reference temperature

    As 2011 says, for accuracy, I don't think a 50 dollar mass produced unit will be +/- 1

    The other point is that the actual temp and the accuracy of the temp at wall stat is largely irrelevant as its the temp that folk feel when sitting in the room is what matters, for older folk I use a large garden thermometer which I place beside their chair to see what they need at the chair and set the wall stat to deliver that.

    Then the kids/grand kids come in and see the stat at say 30 and say, grandad, thats too high and turn it down!

    The second issue is what is the gap between the upper and lower set points, so in a heating system,

    it closes the circuit, fires the boiler, at 18 and opens at say 21

    The mechanical ones, by the nature of the bimetal stat, would have a wider set point gap and therefore there would be less on/off cycling of the boiler.

    A set point gap of 1 will be a nightmare for cycling.

    What's the set point gap on the kit you bought, I dont see it listed.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    +1

    Generally a thermostat get installed, it’s adjusted a few times then it’s left alone.

    More important than the accuracy is the repeatability (this is all about the consistency of the switching) which tends to be very good with the mechanical type.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Don't bother.

    You are simply renovating old tech.

    Do a full digital system (individual rad control)and save yourself cash in the long term.

    Controling zones instead of individual radiators is Flintstone technology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    You would need to expand on and backup those statements to be taken seriously



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    TRVs or wall stats controlling individual rads is still a zonal system anyway

    The rad or room is the zone

    The same way 20 years ago when I was wiring programmable stats in every room for UFH loops. Each room was a zone.

    Usually when I hear the phrase "digital system" i think waffle as digital can simply mean a digital display for example

    Has it been established that digital wall stats are better than analog stats, I don't believe it has



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,675 ✭✭✭John.G


    They have a neutral because some have a "antisipator" heating element around/near the bi metal strip to reduce the stat hysteresis which any digital stat does not require, the digital stat is a very big improvement in the switching hysteresis, I have a basic Fantiniosmi digital stat controlling a combined dining/sitting room, 2 rads, the remaing 8 rads are basic TRV controlled, the digital stat controlles the two rooms to within + or - 0.2C of setpoint, the other stats (were) ~ to + or - 1.5C., these had no anticipator to reduce this hysteresis/differential.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Not sure why you are being unnecessarly disagreeable and pernickety here?

    I'll spell out what is obvious.

    "Gross" zone heating design championed in the 80's consisting of upstairs-downstairs-Hot water zones c/w static TRVs might have been cutting edge and have had value where heating systems were cheap and energy cheaper, but those days are gone.

    Technology has rapidly progressed, boilers are far more complex and energy much more expensive.

    Wasting energy and boiler hours heating rooms, zones, radiators not in use is untenable now.

    You can't give whatever name you want to modern heating systems, i care not but "Digital" is as good as any.

    Most modern boilers are high efficiency and capable of modulation, meaning that the old inefficiency of the on-off boiler no longer hobbles the approach to low load heating (single rads vs a full zone).

    Wiser is as good an example of a fully digital system. Easy to switch the old inefficient and inflexible 2-3 zone S-plan to something much more granular and controllable.

    Replace the controller, add the trv heads to each rad, add a room stat to main rooms as/if required and you are good to go in the 21st century.

    You can heat individual rads, rooms, zones as requested and at the press of a app.

    Not difficult. Saves money and works perfectly.

    No brainer.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    re honeywell and quality, we got (for free!) a full honeywell system installed 10 years ago - in that ten years, we can't fault them on reliability; we've had two of the TRVs fail, but one of those was physically damaged by us so that doesn't count.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Im not saying btw that zoning rooms shouldn't be done . I don't think you've you've made the case that it needs to be done assuming a 3-bed or similar

    It may be that there is no unoccupied rooms in both zones or it may be undesirable to leave a room unheated

    2 zones plus h/w may be sufficient

    Post edited by drury.. on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Seems that you're stuck in old school and have not used modern tech.

    These digital systems are super for any size of house or flat tbh. Individual control is priceless.

    I have the system installed in my residence. The occupiers of the individual bedrooms would riot if i went back to telling them how hot or cold they should be.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Im not surprised, they have a solid reputation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    I told you i was wiring rooms as zones 20yrs ago with programmable stats

    I get it now that you're a homeowner who's fitted trvs so every home should have them iyo

    You may well be right but statements like;

    " Zones went out with the flintstones" need backing up

    And stating that every room should have individual temp control doesn't prove the point



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    It is really something to needs to be assessed on an individual basis.
    You are adding significantly more complexity with individual radiator controls, and justification for this will vary between houses.
    This equipment will also need to be purchased and installed initially and then maintained over time.

    In terms of efficiency, adding controls like will actually reduce overall system efficiency as a boiler will be running to heat individual rooms, with associated boiler and distribution losses rather than heating a complete floor together. You will likely have increased boiler on time, yet reduced condensing hours as this will be impractical during such low heating loads.

    Many gas boilers have modulation, but most oil doesn’t, so that also will be a consideration.

    It’s something that would need to be looked at on a case by case basis. In many houses, having regard to the individual use cases, I wouldn’t recommend something like that. Certainly not as a retrofit solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    That's part of my thinking

    This modern need for complexity with smart control of lighting etc. and zoning rooms individually in small houses etc

    There is issues with temp control in zones using gross zoning (as poster puts it), no argument there

    My idea of smart is reducing effort and complexity not creating work and complexity

    Lots of posts on smart control of immersion heaters . I would need to see the case proven for the benefit there that justifies the additional complexity and workload added.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    The smartest control of indoor lighting imo is pirs in walkways and some other selected areas

    Vastly improves convenience and safety in the home without adding complexity and workload



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    It's really not that serious or difficult or expensive tbh.

    You are overthinking it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    You're happy with your trvs and that's good

    Don't equate that to everyone requires same



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Erm.

    In what odd universe should a room NOT have individual monitoring and control?

    Get with the now, Grandad.

    Good grief.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    It’s not that they can’t have individual control, and in some cases it may be desirable. But in many others, the negatives outweigh the benefits.

    In most domestic premises all rooms are within the same thermal envelope; I.e they are in the same heated space, so having them at significantly different temperatures isn’t really feasible in any case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Righto.

    With all due respect, you guys haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

    Perhaps give advice and opinion on what you do know, rather than what you don't, or at least, don't pretend to be an authority on someone you have no experience of.

    To the OP, do your own research.

    I can vouch for the Wiser system as i have installed it myself. Perhaps give it a look.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭smuggler.ie


    Just asking, what heating you are using ? Oil, gas, other(please specify) ?
    Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    I use Gas. (An old non condenser boiler).

    Not sure it matters that much tbh.

    The Wiser system can be set for different fuels etc.

    Short cycling a massive old oil burner to heat up a small space such as a single bathroom might not be ideal but the system is flexible enough to negate this from happening. (Just don't heat that "zone" separately, add it to the adjacent room).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    I'll email wiser and tell them the "heat source type =Oil" option in thier app is a mistake because the internet says so. :)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    I'm not saying it's a mistake or that rooms shouldn't be zoned individually

    I'm a spark not a heating expert but have wired all types of systems

    I thought maybe you had some expert opinion to contribute when you stated that zones went out with the Flintstones



This discussion has been closed.
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