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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭bjsc


    The conclusions of the French postmortem are as follows.

    Multiple fractures to both the right frontal temoral-parietal bone and the left occipital temporal bone.

    The right side injury is longitudinal and comminuted with notched edges and was caused by a blunt object also with notched edges.

    There were possibly only one to two blows to the right side of the head, depending on the weapon used. The injury to the left side is a contra-coup injury caused by the head hitting a hard surface as a result of the right sided blow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭bjsc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I realise you are responding to @PolicemanFox, but I’m struggling to make sense of that report. By “Stick” do they mean the flat stone with the jagged edge? And by “far corner” do they mean the opposite side of the head?
    Also there is no mention of blood splatter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 254 ✭✭champchamp


    ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 254 ✭✭champchamp




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭bjsc


    This shot may be clearer. Sophie’s body is to the right. There is s broken stick directly behind the breeze block and the blood referred to is that on the bottom left hand corner of the block.

    There is plenty more to the report but I was sent it confidentially so cannot publish the entirety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Thanks, Makes sense now, there must have been a diagram or photo with the report.

    Is this the broken stick, about level with her left shoulder?

    stick.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭bjsc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    If I have the right stick here, there appears to be blood on the block behind the stick, if so the block must have been bloodied before it came to rest there.

    Etit;



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭head82


    Struggling to grasp how the concrete block could have ended up in that position without some manual handling involved. It's covering quite a substantial portion of the nightgown. At least more than the forensic reports would have you believe. I'm not in any position to question their expertise and if they claim it was already in situ when the final blows were delivered, well ..fair enough.
    But logic would dictate, due to size and weight, it didn't just land there from a nudge, an incline in the terrain causing it to roll or whatever else was suggested.
    If it's accepted that it was not the weapon used to administer the final blows (and it would be a very weighty item to raise and swing, particularly for an individual with weak upper body strength.. a woman or a minor) it could still be physically possible to manoeuvre it into position to aid ballast or 'cushion' to inflict maximum damage from a lighter object.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    Maybe the killer put the block in that position and stood on it to give himself a higher drop point.

    The final dropping of the lighter brick on Sophie to make sure she was dead.

    He had to make sure she was dead because she had recognised him and would have been able to ID him if she had survived

    imo

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,169 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Doesnt sound like something a 'heavyweight' like ex rugby player Bailey would need to do...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    I made no mention of Bailey, but people are unpredictable and you never what this killer was thinking

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,169 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I pointed it out as it was mentioned on the thread by posters ruling out certain people as being unable to wield the heavy block. So needed to be someone of certain strength.

    But if thats not how the block was used it makes that point moot.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The way Sophie was killed leads me often to think that the killer was somehow intent of showing a strong anger towards her. This would imply something prior, like he knew her personally, was dealing with her personally with some regularity every time she was staying at the cottage, possible an ongoing feud. ( doesn't have to be property related )

    But of course the killer could only have made the killing look like that intentionally to lead investigators into the wrong direction.

    The killer could easily have strangulated her as well. It would have been silent, could have been unexpected as well, like if he had some kind of cord and came from the back, and it would certainly not have left blood, or blood stains would have been very minimal.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    @bjsc out of curiosity, is there anything in the file that you have access to that would suggest any form of clean-up of the overall scene, etc?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭bjsc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    " the second post mortem, carried out in France, came to the conclusion that some of her injuries were caused when her head came into contact with the block rather than the other way round."

    It doesn't actually say that.

    From the French autopsy in 2008

    " The injury to the left side is a contra-coup injury caused by the head hitting a hard surface as a result of the right sided blow."

    It says a "hard surface", which could just as easily be the flat stone.

    She was found with the left side of her head resting against the flat stone, the top of which and the surrounding area was awash with blood. The block was found a couple of feet away down by her left hip with much less blood.

    She could have received blows to the right side of the head from the flat stone before the assailant went to get the block.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭bjsc


    I was taking the French postmortem in conjunction with the report of the blood pattern analyst. But you are correct that the French report only mentions a hard surface. However the injuries to the right side of Sophie's head are more consistent with the rock, in that they have notched edges, than they are with the sharp edge of the breeze block.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 822 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    To me it would seem that the method of killing was using the two hard surfaces with Sophie's head between, sort of crushing it rather than just impacting it. This is exceedingly brutal to me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Mannesmann


    True. Strange also unless there were two attackers involved?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I would presume that the possibility of two attackers was examined after the murder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,169 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I'd be doubtful. We have a lot of evidence of their failure to properly examine of the scenario for a morning murder, because it didn't fit their case against Bailey.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Doubt is a very good thought here.

    Why was Bailey really so much in the focus?

    Just hate against the original colonial masters, the English?

    Just an unpleasant and difficult personality?

    His history of alcohol and beating up his partner Jules?

    His journalism activity and something he may have written and offended unrelated to the case?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,169 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Hard to know.

    And none of this was done above board, or the pages relating to that period of the investigation wouldn't have been deliberately destroyed.

    But once Bailey was locked in by such corrupt activities, the investigation then took on a group think momentum.

    Desperate for a 'result', unable to properly investigate any French connection, they locked onto Bailey in a tunnel vision, a bit of an outsider and oddball.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,071 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I think Bailey was unpleasant and unpopular with the locals so he was an easy target for the gardai as they knew very few would defend him. Plus that they had to pin it on someone. At first the gardai thought Sophie was a nobody foreigner like most of West Cork. They then realised after Christmas that she was well connected in France and this murder wouldnt be forgot about. They had to find the person responsible for the murder be it by fair or foul means. I dont think they cared whether they found the actual murderer they just had to pin it on someone quick - Big, Loudmouthed, unpopular Engishman Bailey fitted for this purpose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 822 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    One of things that may have really worked against Bailey, is that he was a journalist, and a pretty persistent one at that. I imagine the gardai didn't like someone going around poking holes and asking questions when they are used to working in a vacuum, easily controlling the narrative. A very convenient way to get rid of him was to put his name in the hat of suspects originally, but then it got real legs as its such a spicy story, and he ended up being a very convenient choice all around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    That's the most common thought here in this context.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    @bjsc Would you by any chance have a time and date for this photo, or who took it?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭bjsc


    The problem with this, and indeed with all the photos, is that they have been compiled into albums each of which contain a variety of images by different photographers taken on different days. For example the album of photos which contains the images of the scene taken on the morning of 23rd ( as evidenced by the presence of Shirley Foster's car) is attributed to Garda Tony Byrne who didn't actually arrive until late that night.

    My best guess would be that the photo of the door was taken on 24th as it appears to be daylight and the forensic officers did not enter the house until well after dark on 23rd, but it is only a guess.



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