Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I think there has been plenty of evidence that most people using the HTB didn’t necessarily ‘need it’.
It’s a refund of their own tax contributions to give them a relative edge in bidding against SSBs and investors and also a bit of a bone to builders to encourage more supply.

The absolute numbers and proportion of new builds going to FTBs has been increasing year on year despite the value of the subsidy provided being eroded by inflation over time. The subsidy is pretty much redundant in Dublin now because of the price cap yet still you’ll find queues at most new build launches.

There was a debate some weeks ago, about EA's deliberately underquoting the asking price of property to drive bidding wars.

Some would have you believe that the EA do this because one cannot reasonably expect a professional Estate Agent to value a property with certainty (but will charge you a fee when the bank wants it in writing before issuing a mortgage)

But most reasonable intelligent people know that the EA do this deliberately to drive up the price.

Exhibit A:

EA's going against their code of practice, for a quick buck?

Estate Agents would never do such a thing!! ;)

The reason for this appears to be uncovered

Did you bother reading the article before linking it. Yes the CSO have drilled down and estimated about 73k informal tenancies. About 65% are rented at sub 30% below normal rent levels. Most are in rural Ireland

Some are where employers provide accommodation to employees. Some are described as guardianship tenancies where a person is renting to person related to them.

Basically nothing to see here

Exactly the type of landlord I would be looking for, I'd prefer cheaper rent than a tax credit. I suspect most rentals in Limerick were 30% under new rental levels prior to the eviction ban. Since then the exodus of landlords has been like a tsunami and new rentals are like hens teeth

Never ever under estimate the ability of FFG to fcuk things up. It astounds me that a State completely incapable of managing it's own rentals would tax those people that can to the tune of 50%+.

Yet we continue to vote for these fools and I'm surrounded by blue shirts. Where is the problem here? The people or the gangsters we vote for

The main opposition party manifesto is to increase marginal rates on income over €100k (i.e. what most landlords will pay) to almost 60% so maybe that’s why?

How do you think landlord rental income being taxed at lower rate than a nurses overtime would play in this country?

Giving out about the rate of tax in this country and using it as a reason to vote for opposition in the same post…

SF, PBP, Labour, Social Democrats…lol

RPZ legislation perfectly encapsulates where Irish policy has gone.

Left wing opposition screaming for an outright ban on any increases in rent at all.

Government realises this is lunacy but conscious of public perception of landlords, along with knowing there is no alternative ‘right wing’ party in Ireland move sharply to the left and deliver a slightly softer version where increases are capped at 2% but not banned

Prices continue to rise. Left wing parties continue to scream for outright caps on rent increases. Government responds again with slightly tighter policy (capped at inflation or 2%, whichever is lower)

I can almost guarantee nobody in FG believes in RPZs but they have tactically taken up that position as they know anybody who doesn’t agree with them has to vote for them anyway as all opposition parties want a more extreme version of what we already have.

I’m extremely pro-lowering taxes on all middle to high income earners. Therefore I will continue to vote for current government.

As, scarily, despite having the most progressive tax system in the world, every single opposition party openly wants to increase income taxes on mid to high incomes further.

There is no doubt FG in particular would love to reduce the 52% marginal income tax but they would get utterly annihilated for doing so. We get what we deserve as a voter base.

The political spectrum is split between hard left (SF, PBP, SD, Labour), centre left (FF, FG) and anti immigration (i would say right wing but don’t think these people have any economic policies and if they did, I expect they would be left wing given their support base).

Centre left (what we have) is the best of a very bad bunch.

I am in no way in agreement with DataDude right leaning housing beliefs or majority of their beliefs to be honest as they come across as very elitist in my opinion. However they are correct that "At present, Ireland's top marginal rate of tax is 52 per cent for employees and 55 per cent for self-employed."

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2024-02-01/220/#:~:text=Minister%20for%20Finance,-Share&text=At%20present%2C%20Ireland's%20top%20marginal,the%20top%20marginal%20tax%20rates.

Wrong.

48% on income over €42,000 (single person€ and 52% on income over €70,044. Actually 55% for self employed over €100k

You’re forgetting PRSI and USC

Why are they not caught? The CSO should just send in the data to revenue or send revenue around. Charge them €20k for every year of theft, problem solved 👌

I’m extremely pro-lowering taxes on all middle to high income earners. Therefore I will continue to vote for current government

Would you correlate high personal taxes with extremely poor housing policy. We've had multiple examples of where 2 to 3 housing units could be provided for what the state is paying for 1. Additionally housing was sold for half the price of what the state is paying in subsidies for new supply

We are at our peak in terms of numbers at work and salaries for those people. Housing should be able wash it's own face and be a net contributer to the state in such circumstances. Instead the department of housing is going through 8 billion per year (circa 25% of 2023 paye receipts) .

I'm not so sold as you on FG being centre left. The indigenous wealth of the country is in land and property and contributes little or no tax, with all policies pumping the value to unsustainable levels. There a top 5% party with housing policies akin to a wolf disguised as a sheep.

Rpzs might have worked had they a corresponding tax break to compensate LL's for increased costs/inflation and a plan to balance supply/demand dynamics. FFG policies were abysmal in this aspect

I'm only familiar with the city and surrounds. They've been Rpz for much longer and many landlords were caught with below market rents, given the recession effects were far more traumatic than the rest of the country

In fairness, its completely valid to criticise current government for their actions even if opposition parties may be even more extreme.

Opposition parties are not in government - despite the screeching they do not/should not influence actual policy.

That FG/FF have been so anti landlord despite not relying on any SF/PBP/SocDem/LAB support to keep them in govt is quite astonishing.