General Irish politics discussion thread

Labour will have a huge mandate, but 60% of people do not want them in government.

Labour in the UK would be a broad spectrum of parties here. That's the issue with FPTP. So while they won't need to worry about an opposition for a few years, they will have a lot of internal battles between the left and centrists in the party.

It is also a system that lends itself to being to over run by extremist governments as we are seeing all too glaringly in the US where they are on the verge of becoming an authoritarian state.

Personally I think the citizens assemblies are a very positive growth to our democracy. Getting experts and those directly involved in the respective fields involved in analysis/discussion of the field and offering solutions to problems is a great addition to our democratic process overall.

Facts are Ireland is only independent 100 years now roughly and we are one of the most stable and democratic countries in the world which is a remarkable achievement and pat on the back to our political system.

This is the county that elected a TV deflector TD!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Gildea

On FPTP, everyone knows that it's not representative and that is by far its biggest disadvantage.
But the advantages are.

You know who is going to be PM and in government the morning after.
Sunak has already resigned and left No.10 Downing Street, a mere 12 hours after the polls closed.

The morning after a PR-STV election, often its up on the air as to who will actually govern.

PR-STV will lend itself to coalitions. It took 4 months to elect a Taoiseach last time in Ireland.

I think Holland had a year without a government because parties could not agree on a program for government. FPTP will not (usually) led to such outcomes.

It's also a simple system to vote on and understand. The winner takes all.

Explain the concept of PRSTV to random people on the street, they will look at you sideways. Sure we had people proclaiming SF 'won' the last election because Leo got elected on the 5th count.

One other advantage, you can kick someone out of office.

PR-STV tends to lend itself to coalitions, so while a party's support may decline, they could still end up in government. If the tide goes out for you in FPTP, you are turfed out with no way back.

I am NOT saying that FPTP is better than PR STV before people have a go.

You can make the same argument the other way, that FPTP keeps out extremists.

Corbyn was too extreme for the middle ground so was never going to be PM.

If there was a PR-STV system in the UK, we would be waking up to a Tory/Reform coalition, not a Labour landslide.
Its a bit of a paradox in a way, as one of the reasons why people are unhappy with the Tories (and Labour) is that they are or were too centrist. So these other parties are set up, and may get some support but ultimately the system works against them. Therefore the more centrist and established parties continue to win.

The only way for extremists to come to power is to take over a party from within, like what Trump did in the GOP.
I don't see Farage taking over the Tory party.

Look at the French system. It's a kind of FPTP with a few guardrails. But the presidential election is really FPTP in round 2, which is designed to keep out an extremists i.e Le Pen

This is not any real advantage, it is a mild convenience. Ultimately it matters not at all.

I beg to differ.

People know who won and who lost.

People know who has power and who lost it.

Often here and in Europe, the election is a sideshow for months of negotiations between various parties to come up with an acceptable programme for government and what is contained in said programme can be anyone's guess.

Take 2019.

FF and FG both lost seats and votes, yet remained in government. Did the people really vote for that? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows.

In Ireland we have escaped the worst excess of this because both FF and FG are quite pragmatic, but over time we will see more and more instability as FF and FG vote share will decline and more ideological parties take to the fore.

And also, we compare ourselves to the UK for lots of things.

PR-STV isnt a bad system per say, but it does have weaknesses to it.

We will find out in due course when we have our own election in some months to come. We will be lucky to have a new government by Christmas unless FF and FG get a jump in support.

You are of course free to make an argument like that but the reality is FPTP is a horrible system which is most assuredly much easier for extremists to take control of power from as we have seen in both the UK and the US. Not the pure speculation you put forth as to what may or may not have happened if the UK election used a form of PR.

https://x.com/AlanEnglish9/status/1809519491832844610

Fascinating Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks poll tomorrow…. I'd be tempted to call it a marmalade-dropper.

this on top of all the great sport today, my dodgy ticker might give out…