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Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his CO. Jailed after appeal

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Do we?? I wasn't. And luckily the passer-by who intervened and saved her hadn't been taught that either.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    More good news

    https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/1537494/farewell-event-cancelled-for-limerick-judge-at-centre-of-soldier-assault-case.html

    Also judge Thomas E. O'Donnell's wikipedia page was updated this morning. Not fully accurate as most of us just consider him to be useless

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I'm not missing the point, I am disagreeing with it.

    You might feel threatened because you are weaker than most men, but that still doesnt mean any attack is gender based.

    There is no evidence that he hated women for example, he went after someone weaker than him. He is a bully for sure, but I dont see why you would bring gender into the equation. Are you 100% sure that he would have attacked all women, or do you think if the women in question was a 6'5" and 18 stone MMA fighter that he still would have attacked her?

    If it was gender based, then her ability to defend herself or beat him is irrelevant, but there is no evidence of this.

    Please dont try to turn every single thing into a gender war. Its tiresome.

    Maybe he hates people with long, dark hair, does that make it a gender attack also?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 22,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    So when she spoke up, she wasn't being reckless in the way some male posters are saying, she was doing what women do all the time when they contradict a man: taking her life in her hands.

    Are we really taking our lives into our own hands whenever we contradict a man? That's really a push and a very unhealthy outlook.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Populist nonsense. Many judges impose non custodial sentences for similar assaults on males & females. Crotty fulfilled a few of the mitigating factors: guilty plea, no offending history and threat to employment. Hence the sentencing outcome.

    I think Crotty is a coward. I think he is scum. I think he is a lowlife. I think he has a high chance of being violent again in the future.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    So this thread seems to be that the Commadant should have refused a court summons and also refused to answer under oath about past reviews.

    Maybe all serving solicitors should also be banned from the pride In Limerick and all Guards.

    You can be near certain that the people most excised about this horrific case are also the type who oppose jails and anything that sounds like hang em high justice, ye wanted a progressive legal system.

    Here it is.

    Suspended sentences for everyone bar the most extreme repeat offenders and even then it's early release before time.

    Crotty is your mess..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I think the problem is that when he beat a woman in an unprovoked attack, then in what way was that "out of character"?

    That's a ridiculous conclusion to come to, just because he'd never previously been caught doing that before.

    "Out of character" would be that he'd been taunted and provoked until he snapped and punched someone. What Crotty did showed something very basic about his character, and anyone who didn't know that about him beforehand just didn't know him very well, and THAT should have been the character reference: "he hides his violent streak well when not in a position to win."

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Btw, I think this "she was doing what women do all the time when they contradict a man: taking her life in her hands."

    is a disgusting attitude to have.

    What percentage of men attack women? To paint all men in this light shows where you are coming from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    Is it in keeping with any soldier's character to viciously assault someone in work?

    Well they are trained in hand-to-hand combat so yes, they could be viciously assaulting someone in 'work'.

    His statement about the attack being out of character was a character reference, that Togher was disappointed was a personal statement while the remainder was a record of Crotty as a soldier.

    It was a character reference in so far as Togher could comment on the army's experience of Crotty's character, and if you were Togher, would you not be 'surprised' and 'disappointed' that this disciplined and valued soldier had attacked the very people he has sworn to protect? I'm still not getting your outrage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭I told ya


    I'll take what Natasha said as the 'full truth'.

    According to Natasha, from the podcast, it was a man in a pub, about 50 metres away, who heard her screams and ran up and intervened. Not his friends.

    And clearly the friends did not give the Gardai any info, as Natasha had to track Crotty down. Alternatively, the friends did indeed tell the Guards who he was and…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,719 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think they were more worried about protests at the event and things turning nasty than being populist. Also they might have found it hard to staff the event



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Missing the point again, even though I specifically said, several times, that most men don't do that.

    Most men don't, but women have no way of knowing which men will. So women live with that all the time.

    The other way of looking at it is: most men don't abuse women, but just about every woman has personal experience of some level of intimidation or abuse by a man. Ask the women in your life.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,155 ✭✭✭Tombo2001




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,137 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I am wondering how fearless and assured he’d be had it been a physically imposing man intervening instead of a woman.

    The two scenarios clearly not the same. Yes, he could give it a go against the man, but he absolutely had no fear when going to pulverise a defenceless woman. A physically imposing man a lot more difficult than the woman he chose to beat up. An absolute cowardly act



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,155 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    I never said you said that….

    anyway, I'll shut up now because even when you agree with people they are giving out to you….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    That is absurd and absolute hyperbole. If you actually belive women are taking their life in their hands when they contradict a man then society wouldn't and couldn't function.

    Do you believe that all male-female relationships are based on coercion and intimidation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    double post again

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    So now your position isnt that he didnt do it before, merely that he was never caught before?

    Is there any other evidence that only you are privy to or are you just using your (un)conscious bias in all your reasoning today?

    "he hides his violent streak well when not in a position to win."

    And what evidence, prior to this incident would you base this on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,137 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Do you believe that all male-female relationships are based on coercion and intimidation?

    That's not what I said. In fact I pretty much said the opposite.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Volchitsa, do you personally know Crotty, or are you trying to give that impression.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    None. I'm saying that this act cannot possibly be said to be out of character, because nothing exceptional caused it. Therefore it was in character, and anyone saying it was out of character just didn't know his character.

    Whether it happened before or not, who knows. But we can't assume it's the first time either. All we can say is it's the first time he got caught. I didn't express any view on whether there were previous incidents or not.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Didnt actually read the article, there was more?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,137 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Crotty has not explained why he did what he did. Did he even know what he was doing as he was doing it? Was he drunk to a point where he had no control/understanding what he was at? If he came out and explained, and showed real sorrow and remorse, maybe folks could try understand. But to my knowledge he acted with intent and acted while knowing what he was doing..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Posting about it hours after in social media shows that intent drove his actions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,137 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes. 4-6 punches causing a few different injuries, including a serious concussion



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 22,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I'd agree that no one could honestly testify that this attack was out of character, no more than they could testify Crotty isn't homophobic.

    He was shouting homophobic abuse and viciously attacked Natasha when she asked him to stop - that's his character. He might manage to hide it when he's sober, but he's a scumbag.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 22,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,137 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes. I believe he absolutely knew what he was at.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I understand exactly why Togher used those words. Why can’t you get it into your head that it only aggravates the problem for the Defence Forces.


    It shows that a cowardly thug like Crotty is held in the highest regard by those who are responsible for instilling discipline in the military. Togher didn’t even try to adjust his comments in light of Crotty’s guilty plea and the horrific CCTV (until he was caught unexpectedly by cross-examination)

    There should be fireworks at the Tribunal if anyone tries to defend Togher with your line of reasoning.



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